A for Art, E for Effort?

It seems to me that the amount of effort expended by photographers varies greatly. By that I mean that results seem to come much more easily to some than to others. I'm thinking that when photographers have to work hard to produce good work their work will probably never be as good as the work of photographers for whom the results seem to come a lot more naturally. I wonder if anyone has any thoughts about this. If you have to work hard at it, is it still art, or is it more just work product?

I don't think I can sort them that way Barbara. The amount of effort for me is more often "setting" based, i.e., some situations just require more work than others to get the shot I need or want. I've trained myself to "pre-visualize" my work as much as possible, and some of that requires an inordinate amount of work to get the shot I imagine. Other times it boils down more to quick reflexes, or happening to be in the right place at just the right moment, then recognizing and capturing the shot before the moment passes. In my portfolio, I suspect very few people could distinguish between the two artistically.

In my experience logistics and 'make plans, just don't count on them.' I concur with Hank's concept of previsualization when possible and the anticipation of what it might take to get that shot. Being prepared with the physical needs, whatever they might be, to insure creature comforts may be more important that what is in the camera bag. If you are physically unsettled it will IMO, often reflect in the work.

And the right place at the right moment. I'm sure many here have tales of returning from a shoot they weren't happy with only to find 'that shot" at the side of the road. And on more than one occasion!

I think results are better correlated to time spent than to effort spent. My approach has always been go to places I like although I do usually need to make dedicated trips for Burrowing Owls and when I chase a reported rarity. Experience plays a big part: knowing the gear so that you don't fumble when you need to make adjustments; knowing good light from bad; being realistic about how close or far away the subject is.

I do agree that images resulting from "hard work" often don't measure up to those that come more naturally. I've also noticed that a photographer's evaluation of an image may be unduly influenced by how hard it was to produce.

It's kind of a cumulative effort too - those for whom it seems "easy" often have years of experience fine-tuning skills when it was NOT so "easy".
I sure agree with this from Rich too : "I've also noticed that a photographer's evaluation of an image may be unduly influenced by how hard it was to produce." As I read a post from someone - not necessarily here - about the hours of tough hiking, bloodied knees, frozen fingers and dead batteries, I often wonder from the image posted if it was worth all that effort...maybe not such a great image.. effort does not necessarily correlate with results!
Sandy

I'm thinking that when photographers have to work hard to produce good work their work will probably never be as good as the work of photographers for whom the results seem to come a lot more naturally.

I believe nothing could be further from the truth. Plain and simple, work equals success whether monetarily or personally.

Barbara: I don't personally doubt that there are some who have a more "natural" eye toward artistic vision than others. I think I am one of the "others." I have studied art and composition and had my images critiqued. I tend to be "formulaic" when I compose. I have a couple friends who haven't done that. Yet, sometimes they will "see" things I didn't and I marvel at their vision. It may be a case of getting in my own way. Yet I have also experienced, personally, what I think Sandy was getting at. I will work really hard, pre-visualize, plan the time of day, angle of light, etc., and then have the photo be "ho hum," and have another unplanned photo be spectacular.

There is something to the old hackneyed phrase "F8 and be there" but I do think there is much to be said for the "homework" and years of experience that goes into the "craft" of photography. Don't know how intelligible that all was

Barbara, I think you might underestimate the amount of work, practice, and effort that precedes most seemingly effortless images.

"...I mean that results seem to come much more easily to some than to others. "

I believe that people are predisposed to learn some things very easily, but may struggle with learning other things. Therefore, those who learn things easily will achieve satisfying results with less effort than with something they struggle to learn.

"I'm thinking that when photographers have to work hard to produce good work their work will probably never be as good as the work of photographers for whom the results seem to come a lot more naturally."

I disagree with this, Barbara. I believe that, in essence, it's not the effort that really counts--it's the final result, whether it comes easily or not, is quite beside the point.

"If you have to work hard at it, is it still art, or is it more just work product?"

One may work very hard to acheive their visualization, and in their own mind (and perhaps in the opinion of others) they have created a piece of art.

--P

I agree completely that it's more about time spent than effort expended. Sure, there are always those that are going to be more adept with their gear. But once you get to a certain level technically, it's about being out there as much as possible. The more time you spend increases the chance of success. I will admit, I don't go on epic journeys to capture my images. I just don't have the time, money and fitness to attempt that sort of thing. But, I do get out as much as possible. I try to go where the scenery is amazing, and hope for special conditions to materialize while I'm there. Putting yourself in the best possible location and position to react when the time comes. The more time you spend out there, the more opportunities will present themselves to you. Then you can take it to another level with careful planning and response to certain weather patterns or events. With Yosemite, you kind of have to be ready at a moments notice to react quickly when it snows in the valley. It doesn't happen too many times during each winter, and the conditions don't stay great for long once the storm has past. Then if you are very adventurous, you can get dropped off into wild remote places that few people have ever seen and do night shooting of the aurora and such. But we can't all be like Marc. We can still make the best possible effort at our own endeavors.

And, I also completely agree with Preston. It's the final result that matters. A great image captured out the window of you car, is still a great image! Now, for some, it's also about the journey. They may just not get excited or rewarded by that kind of approach to thier craft. But it doesn't change the fact that a great shot can be captured by standing in a roadside turnout. I myself like going to a little more trouble than that. Sometimes a little suffering makes me appreciate the moments more. But I'll take the effortless moments too!

Thanks very much for all your input and comments.

Hank, I have been thinking also in a different context about how much preparation and effort goes into making some shots, but that's not what I mean here about work. I mean more about things like the natural quick reflexes, as you mentioned, versus developing quicker reflexes, for example. I wonder if age has something to do with that (if you start photography when you're older versus when you're younger). I'd think that having used your quick reflexes for a lifetime would keep them quick when you're older, too, but if you just start when you're older it's more difficult. I'm much slower than I should be as far as reflexes go. When I'm around other photographers, even my age, they will all have captured several images before I can even push the button the first time.

David, your comment about being prepared for physical needs is very interesting. I have gotten better at that but need to still improve there. There aren't many places I can go that don't involve being there at least a few hours, at least to make it worth the drive (it's an hour just to the beach), so it is important.

Richard, time spent and experience are close to my heart, because those are things that I can do for the time that I have left that I'm able to do this. That's encouraging.

Sandy, your comments are very true, but actually most of the people who by their descriptions and comments with their posts make it seem so easy are the younger people. Maybe it's just that they have a different mental attitude about it.

Brad, your comments about "plain and simple, work equals success" really struck a chord in my heart. Thank you for that.

Andy, thank you for saying that you're one of the "others." That's a real encouragement.

Brian, you may be right about my underestimating what goes into a shot, but I'm only going by what the people post with their images. Some people make it sound so very easy and natural.

Preston and Chris, I wonder if the final result will always be better from someone who has a gift for photography than for someone for whom it is more difficult. Going by my non-photography work (how I earn my living), I can say that's true there. I'm very good at what I do, and it's very easy for me, and it's very hard for someone who has to work very hard at it to produce results equal to mine. So that's part of what's in my mind. Photography is absolutely, beyond a doubt wonderfully amazing to me, but I can't say that it's easy at all, from beginning to end, so I wonder if that limits my potential.

Thank you again, very much, for the comments.

Photography is absolutely, beyond a doubt wonderfully amazing to me, but I can't say that it's easy at all, from beginning to end, so I wonder if that limits my potential.

Like many other things in life, I never expect making art to be easy.

Don't underestimate how important it is to be completely familiar with your equipment. That means where all the buttons are, how to quickly change ISO, Av to Tv or Manual, change exposure compensation, etc, and be able to do all this QUICKLY. Not ony that, but also be familiar with how making those adjustments is going to affect your image. When you can make those camera adjustments quickly and confidently, it lets you concentrate more on the "image" you want.

I once saw some information from a guy who taught photography workshops, and he had a list of things like I just mentioned, and he said you should be able to do all these things WITHOUT LOOKING AT YOUR CAMERA. As you implied, things can happen fast when you're trying to take a photo, for example if the light is changing, or the animal is moving, and it takes practice to do things quickly. It also takes practice working with your camera to find out for yourself how changing all those settings will change the look of your image. And yes, I agree that spending time in the field is what really impacts your results.

Like others, I disagree with your concern of: "I wonder if the final result will always be better from someone who has a gift for photography than for someone for whom it is more difficult." Sometimes it may seem that way, but I certainly would not say that it is pre-ordained that it will happen like that. People struggle to learn many different things, and sometimes that struggle is what gives you your own unique perspective on your work, and that can be a very powerful thing.

Barbara: I think there is no substitute for time spent on the craft and doubt that there are many true "naturals" out there. In a recent book on exceptional people (Outliers: The Story of Success by Malcolm Gladwell) it was noted that a common denominator of high achievers was 10,000 hours at their skill. Michael Jordan was a phenomenal basketball player who made the game look easy but he didn't pop out of momma's tummy with a 40 inch vertical leap and fabulous quickness and coordination. In photography I think that especially applies to the art of seeing image potential in any given subject as well as familiarity with your gear. When I'm shooting with my 200mm lens I can usually set up within a few inches of where I need to be to get the framing I want. That just comes from hundreds, perhaps even thousands of hours with that lens. I've been at this seriously for a little over 15 years but I remember being at your stage. Frankly, at the rate you've improved I think you're much further along than I was at a comparable stage. If the joy of the subject stays with you then the joy of the capture and presentation wil grow as well. >=))>

Thank you, Anil, Genny and Bill.

Anil, your words are very encouraging.

Genny, your first two paragraphs are so true and are something I'm still working on, just this week, in fact. Your last sentence about struggle sometimes giving a unique perspective is a way of thinking that hadn't occurred to me before.

Bill, what encouraging information from Outliers and from your own experience.

Thank you all, again.