Posted by Tom Stermitz on December 22, 2011 at 4:36 PM
I just got back some scans from my Spring trip to Canyonlands. This was taken early morning on the Island in the Sky. Stepping carefully over the guard rail, I set up my tripod, waiting for sunrise, hoping for good light. I was using my really fun Pentax 645N with 35mm manual lens.
I would love some feedback on this image. It is really dramatic, but that makes it easy to over do things.
This is a two image stitch from a NCPS scan of 120 Velvia100. I really didn't boost the saturation at all, that's the Velvia LSD effect. I'm now using my big calibrated monitor, and I notice that my laptop screen is kind of strange. I might have used a warming filter, which would explain the violet to the sky, or else that is the velvia.. This picture has required quite a bit of post-processing due to the high-contrast nature of Velvia.
It was easy to get the shadows to go dark, but hard to dodge in the highlights on the bush and rocks. I would like to get a higher quality scan in TIFF so I can have a bit more latitude and recover a little more. (Can any of you scanner pros recommend what kind of drum scan I should order? I was thinking TIFF Adobe RGB with 16bit at 4800x7200, unless that is overkill.)
(I really like using the P645N. I'm selling my backup body and 75mm lens, in case anybody is interested.)
Posted by Todd Caudle on December 22, 2011 at 6:08 PM
Wow, and I thought MY colors in yesterday's post were whacked out!
Double Wow!
Kinda makes me want to resurrect my on Contax RTS and shoot some film images again.
Very nice image.
Posted by Joshua Hardin on December 23, 2011 at 12:01 PM
All color issues aside, to me the bottom half of the image looks very, very underexposed and the sky is just a tad too bright despite (or because of) the post processing work. Knowing this was taken on contrasty Velvia it might be very difficult to pull out more detail in the foreground even with a high quality scan. However, without seeing the original transparency it's difficult to make any surefire recommendations from what I see here.
Posted by Roger Rouch on December 23, 2011 at 12:45 PM
That's pretty neat. I used to have a Pentax 645 and do miss my film days sometimes, but dang, with a couple of lenses that sucker was bulky. You might google up Danny Burk for scanning. He does good work at a reasonable cost and can probably help with any resolution questions.
Posted by Glenn Randall on December 24, 2011 at 7:43 PM
I'd have to echo Joshua's comment that while I love the composition and color, the bottom of the frame has way too much black for the image to really succeed.
Posted by Stan Rose on December 25, 2011 at 12:06 AM
I kinda like it nice and dark
Posted by Tom Stermitz on December 25, 2011 at 2:46 PM
Thanks for all the comments.
Velvia is well-known for it's saturation in the reds & yellows, but also for having a lower dynamic range. I do think I nailed the exposure for the sky; any brighter and I'd have blown highlights. That leaves the dark areas; adding fill pulls in some detail at the cost of some scanner banding. I need a better scan in order to have more controlled dark areas and more malleable files. I'm sending the slides in to Danny Burk who does high resolution, 16-bit drum scans cheaper and better than the pro-labs. My technique was good (not always a sure thing!), and with better scans, the file quality & size will allow a nice, large print to be made. The small image here on RMNP doesn't show all the wow hidden in the shot.
That said, I like the dark and moody areas, but it will take a careful touch with dodge & burn or local contrast masking to bring up the highlights properly. It will be a learning process. I've been reviewing the local post-processing videos in the "Daily Critiques" at http://www.tmelive.com/ The Mindful Eye. There is a lot to learn.
Another interesting thing for me is how quickly the light changed from dim and somewhat uniform to bright sunrise vs deep shadows. I only took 6 or 7 shots over 20 minutes or so, and since I was given this great opportunity I coulda/shoulda done a couple rolls of 16 with some bracketing. The picture above was a 2-frame merge from almost the tail end of the shoot before the sun came up. Incidently, the Pentax 645N gave me this exposure automatically with a -1 exposure compensation dialed in. I do have an ND4 Grad, which I'm likely to have used it here, but I just don't remember.
Posted by Roger Rouch on December 28, 2011 at 11:18 PM
Tom, Sounds like you are onto things with your P645. I get tempted to get back into MF film, and may some day. In spite of all the logical arguments, there remains in my mind something special about film that I've yet to put a finger on. If I could offer any suggestions, it would be to look into other film emulsions. Velvia will look nice on the light table, but for scanning for prints, if I were to do it again, I would go more with Provia as a slide film, but would also be looking at some of the Fuji negative films, which really offer an interesting color palette. It's a true pain to view negative film on a light table, but offers unique colors that would take a lot of work to replicate with photoshop and digital. If I really got serious, I would also pick up a Nikon Coolscan 8000 or 9000 film scanner, which by my experience with scanning services, comes close to a drum scan at about the cost of a high end digital camera.
Just a few thoughts from my experience, which with 25 cents, may or may not buy a cup of coffee.
Posted by Tom Stermitz on December 29, 2011 at 1:25 AM
Thanks Roger. Every time I look at the price of a MF scanner, I put down the can opener and step away from the worms, as Ctein would say. Maybe I need to share the price with somebody. (Up here in Ft Collins?).
With inexpensive scans, you kind of get nothing more nor less than what is on the film, like shooting JPEG. That works pretty good in good light when you like way Velvia looks. And frankly, I've had more favorite images from my Leica M6 on velvia than from the P645N. There is something plastic or molten and rich that I really like, and even the Velvia grain on those inexpensive 35mm scans is just wonderful, adding a texture at the bottom. I haven't been able to figure out if it is the Velvia, the M6, the Leical lens, or my luck with that image and that light at that moment.
I think your suggestion is good if you can get good, 16-bit scans. In that workflow, it is like you are operating on RAW files in ACR.
The other truism is to work with one film until you know it and can predict what you are going to get. But, I like the Provia suggestion.
Posted by Tom Stermitz on January 13, 2012 at 12:20 AM
Wow, what a difference a drum scan makes! Danny Burke gave me great service and some great scans. He also noted the magenta cast, and suggested it came from slightly worn out developer. His scans extracted a lot of nice detail in the shadows. Much bigger files, too! Poor, struggling laptop!
The kind of monitor makes a lot of difference, and this version is JPEG optimized on my laptop screen for uploading to my smugmug account. For printing, I'll work on my calibrated screen, but I still need some practice to match that to what my printshop actually turns out.
I reworked the image to let more of this texture show, while leaving some dark shadows. I was more cautious with the saturation, dodging and burning, but the image could use more attention, here.
I would love more critical comments wrt this image as it has a lot of potential, but I could go several different directions with it.
Discussion
10 repliesI would love some feedback on this image. It is really dramatic, but that makes it easy to over do things.
This is a two image stitch from a NCPS scan of 120 Velvia100. I really didn't boost the saturation at all, that's the Velvia LSD effect. I'm now using my big calibrated monitor, and I notice that my laptop screen is kind of strange. I might have used a warming filter, which would explain the violet to the sky, or else that is the velvia.. This picture has required quite a bit of post-processing due to the high-contrast nature of Velvia.
It was easy to get the shadows to go dark, but hard to dodge in the highlights on the bush and rocks. I would like to get a higher quality scan in TIFF so I can have a bit more latitude and recover a little more. (Can any of you scanner pros recommend what kind of drum scan I should order? I was thinking TIFF Adobe RGB with 16bit at 4800x7200, unless that is overkill.)
(I really like using the P645N. I'm selling my backup body and 75mm lens, in case anybody is interested.)
Kinda makes me want to resurrect my on Contax RTS and shoot some film images again.
Very nice image.
Velvia is well-known for it's saturation in the reds & yellows, but also for having a lower dynamic range. I do think I nailed the exposure for the sky; any brighter and I'd have blown highlights. That leaves the dark areas; adding fill pulls in some detail at the cost of some scanner banding. I need a better scan in order to have more controlled dark areas and more malleable files. I'm sending the slides in to Danny Burk who does high resolution, 16-bit drum scans cheaper and better than the pro-labs. My technique was good (not always a sure thing!), and with better scans, the file quality & size will allow a nice, large print to be made. The small image here on RMNP doesn't show all the wow hidden in the shot.
That said, I like the dark and moody areas, but it will take a careful touch with dodge & burn or local contrast masking to bring up the highlights properly. It will be a learning process. I've been reviewing the local post-processing videos in the "Daily Critiques" at http://www.tmelive.com/ The Mindful Eye. There is a lot to learn.
Another interesting thing for me is how quickly the light changed from dim and somewhat uniform to bright sunrise vs deep shadows. I only took 6 or 7 shots over 20 minutes or so, and since I was given this great opportunity I coulda/shoulda done a couple rolls of 16 with some bracketing. The picture above was a 2-frame merge from almost the tail end of the shoot before the sun came up. Incidently, the Pentax 645N gave me this exposure automatically with a -1 exposure compensation dialed in. I do have an ND4 Grad, which I'm likely to have used it here, but I just don't remember.
Just a few thoughts from my experience, which with 25 cents, may or may not buy a cup of coffee.
With inexpensive scans, you kind of get nothing more nor less than what is on the film, like shooting JPEG. That works pretty good in good light when you like way Velvia looks. And frankly, I've had more favorite images from my Leica M6 on velvia than from the P645N. There is something plastic or molten and rich that I really like, and even the Velvia grain on those inexpensive 35mm scans is just wonderful, adding a texture at the bottom. I haven't been able to figure out if it is the Velvia, the M6, the Leical lens, or my luck with that image and that light at that moment.
I think your suggestion is good if you can get good, 16-bit scans. In that workflow, it is like you are operating on RAW files in ACR.
The other truism is to work with one film until you know it and can predict what you are going to get. But, I like the Provia suggestion.
The kind of monitor makes a lot of difference, and this version is JPEG optimized on my laptop screen for uploading to my smugmug account. For printing, I'll work on my calibrated screen, but I still need some practice to match that to what my printshop actually turns out.
I reworked the image to let more of this texture show, while leaving some dark shadows. I was more cautious with the saturation, dodging and burning, but the image could use more attention, here.
I would love more critical comments wrt this image as it has a lot of potential, but I could go several different directions with it.
You can see a bigger image at my smugmug landscape gallery: http://www.photokinesis.info/Landscapes/Landscape