So, I have been shooting with a d200 and 18-70mm lens for about 6 years now. I've wnated to upgrade for about 4 or so of those years. My main goal is to make bigger, better prints. So, when Nikon announced the D3, I was dissappointed in the lack of increase to resolution. I don't need all that speed. lack of resolution was the reason I didn't just get a D700. So I waited, and then the D3X with 24 megapixels, hurray! But the $8,000.00 price tag, boo hoo! So, I started to save my money a few years ago, hoping to one day be able to get the big dog. Well, do to circumstances and events we are all familiar with the last couple of years, I have not yet made it to where i need to be with my savings. I was hoping that Nikon would wake up to the seriuos lack of competition they offer against the 5DmkII. Something with 20 or so megapixels and high ISO performance within a grand of the 5DmkII. Not too much to ask IMO, right? Well now the D4 with not as much resolution as I would like, and lots of bells and whistles that I would probably never use, and a 6 grand price tag!
I want a full frame sensor, live view, 100% viewfinder, dual card slots, weather seals, and the rest I can do without.
So, should I stay on my current path until I get the cabbage for the big dog? Or should I get the D4 and just be happy with the very high quality machine that it is? Or, should I just get a D7000, and three really good pro level lenses and be happy with that. The only thing between the D7000, and either of the two full frame rigs is the sensor, and the weather sealing that I'm concerned about.
Another concern with the huge files of the D3X, or the D3 for that matter, is the possible need for a faster computer with more processing power. Just looking for opinions on the subject, any feedback is greatly appreciated. This has been a long process for me, and I'm gdetting close to being able to pull the trigger. It will probably be the first, and last upgrade I will make, so I want to make the best decision possible.
Get a killer 4x5 system, an Epson V700 scanner, upgrade your computer, and you'll be set! Just kidding,,,sort of.
If you want really big prints that look fabulous at 250 to 360 dpi print resolution, a scan from a 4x5 chunk of film will give you that.
However, I have a feeling that LF is not your cup of tea, Chris. Honestly, I can't really help with selection of a camera because I'm not up on the DSLR world, but I can give you some ideas about upgrading your workstation if you'll tell me what your needs are and the specs on the computer you are using currently.
Good luck with your project!
--P
Posted by David Edwards on January 17, 2012 at 5:23 AM
I'm kind of in the same boat as you, Chris. I currently don't have a camera as my D80 stopped working after a dip in the ocean, and have been waiting for the new round of full frame cameras to be released. As fabulous as the top systems are, my budget is in the 5DII, D700 range, so I've been eagerly waiting on their upgrades. I have not been overly happy with the color rendition from the Nikon and was wanting to upgrade to the Canon 5D3. However, at this point the 5D2 is about a thousand bucks off it's retail price and with the 24-105 lens goes for around $3635 AUD, which is getting very hard to resist.
The D800 looks like being a 36MP camera, while Canon are saying the 5D3 won't be a big MP camera. Hard drives are pretty cheap these days so storage space should not be a problem, but the processing power of your system maybe a problem if your handling very large files.
At this point I'm waiting to see what the 5D3 specs will be before making a decision on waiting for it or purchasing a 5D2 (or possibly a D800 if they get live view and the color right). I see it as a weigh up between budget and required camera features. If I were you I'd wait to see the FF cameras Canon and Nikon release in the next few months to see if any new technologies and features will serve your purpose, but I must admit, the wait is excruciating! Good luck.
Posted by Dan Roberts on January 17, 2012 at 9:16 AM
If you don't have a bunch of high dollar lenses then why marry yourself to Nikon? You have mentioned the 5D Mk2 several times as if that is the ideal camera at a reasonable price. So why not just switch to Canon?
I will tell you that I shot a D200 and now have a D7000. It is a far superior camera to the 200 in image quality, color rendition, ISO/noise performance, etc. Plus you still get the crop factor benefit of the DX format which makes it easier to get by with less expensive lenses. I've had the 7000 out in some pretty wet weather several times and it is none the worse for wear.
Looking at you gallery (very nice by the way) it seems you are primarily into landscapes. For static scenes why not just use software to stitch multiple frames to get your high res images that you are after? Definately a less espensive route than a high res camera body.
Posted by Dan Roberts on January 17, 2012 at 11:47 AM
If you don't have a bunch of high dollar lenses then why marry yourself to Nikon? You have mentioned the 5D Mk2 several times as if that is the ideal camera at a reasonable price. So why not just switch to Canon?
I will tell you that I shot a D200 and now have a D7000. It is a far superior camera to the 200 in image quality, color rendition, ISO/noise performance, etc. Plus you still get the crop factor benefit of the DX format which makes it easier to get by with less expensive lenses. I've had the 7000 out in some pretty wet weather several times and it is none the worse for wear.
Looking at you gallery (very nice by the way) it seems you are primarily into landscapes. For static scenes why not just use software to stitch multiple frames to get your high res images that you are after? Definately a less espensive route than a high res camera body.
Posted by Jim Sabiston on January 17, 2012 at 1:51 PM
Chris,
Just for fun, I looked up the current price on the 5D/24-105mm combo at B&H and it is only $2,799 US!
That is an awful lot of very capable FF camera for not a lot of money. I use the same setup and I shoot an easy 90% of my work with exactly that rig.Given the price range of the Nikons you are looking at, maybe this is the best way to go. I've used the camera/lens in all sorts of nasty conditions, from rain to sand deep sub-zero with no issues. Just take reasonable precautions as you would use with any camera.
There are several cameras out there that out-perform any full-frame DSLR in terms of image quality and some of them are APS-C format. If you have not been following this, spend some time with Luminous-landscape.com. The culprit seems to be the a.a filter. Lightroom 4 will have a simple fix for moire. I am waiting for a full frame DSLR with no a.a. filter. The D800 is rumored to exist and offer this option. Otherwise, the only full frame option is the M9. Hold off on any DX camera as this class is about to be devoured by ILC. Nikon Rumors has suggested the D800 may be announced on Feb. 7. A 36mp camera from Sony has also been rumored as well as a full frame NEX.
Posted by David Bostedo on January 17, 2012 at 4:46 PM
There are several cameras out there that out-perform any full-frame DSLR in terms of image quality and some of them are APS-C format.
Robert, could you define "out-perform"? Are you purely talking resolution chart testing?
Posted by David Chauvin on January 17, 2012 at 5:29 PM
Another nod to the 5D2. Considering that you seem to be mostly a landscape shooter and not a serial upgrader, this camera could serve you well for years to come. If you are not set on Nikon, I would give the 5D2 a hard look. I picked one up this past spring and could not be happier with the image quality and bang for the buck.
Thank you for the suggestions so far. All are thoughts I have entertained myself so far. I agree that the 5dmkII really has no rival from Nikon right now. I am at the cusp of making that switch. There's got to be some good reason why 90% of the folks here and elsewhere are shooting that camera.
I have also thought about the stitching solution to the need for larger resolution files for big prints. I do that now sometimes with my current set up.
No I'm not a serial upgrader. I daydream about all the time, but I live in the real world!!!!!!!!!! I'm not even sure I will be able to allow myself to actually spend the money, now that I have taken the time to save it for so long. I used to just burn up a credit card, but those days are over!
In the end, I've been a Nikon shooter, and would like to stay with them. I know it really doesn't matter what brand you shoot with. They are both very good. Even some of the other brands mentioned. If Nikon does not come up with something that more closely suits my needs, I'l seriously consider the move to the 5DmkII or MkIII. Or go the D7000 route with a complement of two or three top shelf lenses and a new tripod and ballhead!
Preston,
Thanks. It's not that LF is not my cup of tea. I'd actually like to get a rig. But I want to get my digital system where I want it, and my digital skills/process/approach honed in before I take on the challenge of learning something new. But I also think it would be very hard for me to not be able to review my images as I go. Getting a batch of improperly exposed film would be a big bumber for me.
Preston,
I currently work with a laptop! Always have actually. But I bought a used Dell E1705 a year and half back. It has 4 gigs of ram and a very nice, large screen. I'm not sure what the processor is. It also has a defrag, and some other nice features. I'm thinking with larger files, I'm gonna need maybe dual processors and 8 or more gigs of ram. Maybe it's time to have a machine built from Puget systems eh?
I have been very pleased with the machine I have though.
If you are running a 32-bit OS, going above 4GB of RAM won't buy you anything because Windows won't see it. Since you said you'd like at least 8GB of RAM and a more capapble CPU, you'll need a 64-bit system, including a 64-bit version of Photoshop for best performance.
"Maybe it's time to have a machine built from Puget systems eh?
That's what I did, and I couldn't be happier! My Puget machine is absolutely the best computer I have ever used. Btw: Puget makes laptops, too; but they are pricey. E-mail me and I'll give you more info.
Large format is definitely a new world, and given the quality of your work, I think you're ready to join the dark slide. It's up to you, my friend, and we're here to help if you want to make the leap.
--P
Posted by RL Potts on January 18, 2012 at 12:13 AM
Sorry, I didn't intend to be confusing. I tend to use ILC (interchangeable lens camera) interchangeably with mirrorless. I am not alone in this. Any way, some folks are predicting the demise of the DSLR, but I think the control afforded by an SLR will keep the pro full-frame class going. I doubt that it will save the smaller formats or such as Dx, 4/3, and micro 4/3 of digital SLR's. Nikon made their mirrorless tiny so that they can continue to sell cameras like the D7000, but the writing is on the wall.
Folks are gushing about the Nex 7 and the new Fuji.
The parameters for quality where I have been reading are enlargements from prints. Not too scientific, but you can get the drift. The poster was talking about prints.
Posted by Mark Pelton on January 18, 2012 at 8:55 AM
Chris, I am in the same boat as you. I need to be able to occasionally make sharp 24" X 36" prints and although my system (very similar to yours, although I have been using my wifes D90 lately) does pretty good, I know I need larger files for this size print. I almost pulled the trigger on the 5D2 last week, but now I have decided to wait till after the D800 comes out (supposedly in Feb), I was hoping the D800 would just be 24MP but apparently it will be 36MP, and go for less than $3000. I, too, am tempted by the D7000, but I just don't think it will produce the large prints that a FF sensor camera will. I also have a cache of Nikon lens, that are making the decision tougher. It is possible that the D800 will produce markedly cleaner (less noise) files than the 5D2.
Posted by RL Potts on January 19, 2012 at 12:32 PM
The latest rumor is that there will be a D800 without the a.a. filter for about $3900. There will also be a version with A.A. filter for about $3000. If true, this will be a tough decision for lots of folks. It is certainly possible that the 5D mark III will follow a similar path. I believe you should wait as long as you can to see what the reviewers say and how all of this plays out.
Posted by Tom Hilton on February 1, 2012 at 4:23 PM
I'm currently in a D300s rig....
But I'm real interested in the D800 and a Zeiss 25mm prime lens.
The AA filter thing confuses me.
But I can't wait to get up to a full frame sensor.
I'm looking for big (20x30+) prints, that are sharp and clean.
(I have shot Nikon and Rollei Med format since 1971...)
Discussion
15 repliesI want a full frame sensor, live view, 100% viewfinder, dual card slots, weather seals, and the rest I can do without.
So, should I stay on my current path until I get the cabbage for the big dog? Or should I get the D4 and just be happy with the very high quality machine that it is? Or, should I just get a D7000, and three really good pro level lenses and be happy with that. The only thing between the D7000, and either of the two full frame rigs is the sensor, and the weather sealing that I'm concerned about.
Another concern with the huge files of the D3X, or the D3 for that matter, is the possible need for a faster computer with more processing power. Just looking for opinions on the subject, any feedback is greatly appreciated. This has been a long process for me, and I'm gdetting close to being able to pull the trigger. It will probably be the first, and last upgrade I will make, so I want to make the best decision possible.
Chris
If you want really big prints that look fabulous at 250 to 360 dpi print resolution, a scan from a 4x5 chunk of film will give you that.
However, I have a feeling that LF is not your cup of tea, Chris. Honestly, I can't really help with selection of a camera because I'm not up on the DSLR world, but I can give you some ideas about upgrading your workstation if you'll tell me what your needs are and the specs on the computer you are using currently.
Good luck with your project!
--P
The D800 looks like being a 36MP camera, while Canon are saying the 5D3 won't be a big MP camera. Hard drives are pretty cheap these days so storage space should not be a problem, but the processing power of your system maybe a problem if your handling very large files.
At this point I'm waiting to see what the 5D3 specs will be before making a decision on waiting for it or purchasing a 5D2 (or possibly a D800 if they get live view and the color right). I see it as a weigh up between budget and required camera features. If I were you I'd wait to see the FF cameras Canon and Nikon release in the next few months to see if any new technologies and features will serve your purpose, but I must admit, the wait is excruciating! Good luck.
I will tell you that I shot a D200 and now have a D7000. It is a far superior camera to the 200 in image quality, color rendition, ISO/noise performance, etc. Plus you still get the crop factor benefit of the DX format which makes it easier to get by with less expensive lenses. I've had the 7000 out in some pretty wet weather several times and it is none the worse for wear.
Looking at you gallery (very nice by the way) it seems you are primarily into landscapes. For static scenes why not just use software to stitch multiple frames to get your high res images that you are after? Definately a less espensive route than a high res camera body.
I will tell you that I shot a D200 and now have a D7000. It is a far superior camera to the 200 in image quality, color rendition, ISO/noise performance, etc. Plus you still get the crop factor benefit of the DX format which makes it easier to get by with less expensive lenses. I've had the 7000 out in some pretty wet weather several times and it is none the worse for wear.
Looking at you gallery (very nice by the way) it seems you are primarily into landscapes. For static scenes why not just use software to stitch multiple frames to get your high res images that you are after? Definately a less espensive route than a high res camera body.
Just for fun, I looked up the current price on the 5D/24-105mm combo at B&H and it is only $2,799 US!
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/583987-REG/Canon_2764B004_EOS_5D_Mark_II.html
That is an awful lot of very capable FF camera for not a lot of money. I use the same setup and I shoot an easy 90% of my work with exactly that rig.Given the price range of the Nikons you are looking at, maybe this is the best way to go. I've used the camera/lens in all sorts of nasty conditions, from rain to sand deep sub-zero with no issues. Just take reasonable precautions as you would use with any camera.
Robert, could you define "out-perform"? Are you purely talking resolution chart testing?
I have also thought about the stitching solution to the need for larger resolution files for big prints. I do that now sometimes with my current set up.
No I'm not a serial upgrader. I daydream about all the time, but I live in the real world!!!!!!!!!! I'm not even sure I will be able to allow myself to actually spend the money, now that I have taken the time to save it for so long. I used to just burn up a credit card, but those days are over!
In the end, I've been a Nikon shooter, and would like to stay with them. I know it really doesn't matter what brand you shoot with. They are both very good. Even some of the other brands mentioned. If Nikon does not come up with something that more closely suits my needs, I'l seriously consider the move to the 5DmkII or MkIII. Or go the D7000 route with a complement of two or three top shelf lenses and a new tripod and ballhead!
Preston,
Thanks. It's not that LF is not my cup of tea. I'd actually like to get a rig. But I want to get my digital system where I want it, and my digital skills/process/approach honed in before I take on the challenge of learning something new. But I also think it would be very hard for me to not be able to review my images as I go. Getting a batch of improperly exposed film would be a big bumber for me.
Thanks,
Chris
Preston,
I currently work with a laptop! Always have actually. But I bought a used Dell E1705 a year and half back. It has 4 gigs of ram and a very nice, large screen. I'm not sure what the processor is. It also has a defrag, and some other nice features. I'm thinking with larger files, I'm gonna need maybe dual processors and 8 or more gigs of ram. Maybe it's time to have a machine built from Puget systems eh?
I have been very pleased with the machine I have though.
Chris
Chris
If you are running a 32-bit OS, going above 4GB of RAM won't buy you anything because Windows won't see it. Since you said you'd like at least 8GB of RAM and a more capapble CPU, you'll need a 64-bit system, including a 64-bit version of Photoshop for best performance.
"Maybe it's time to have a machine built from Puget systems eh?
That's what I did, and I couldn't be happier! My Puget machine is absolutely the best computer I have ever used. Btw: Puget makes laptops, too; but they are pricey. E-mail me and I'll give you more info.
Large format is definitely a new world, and given the quality of your work, I think you're ready to join the dark slide. It's up to you, my friend, and we're here to help if you want to make the leap.
--P
Folks are gushing about the Nex 7 and the new Fuji.
The parameters for quality where I have been reading are enlargements from prints. Not too scientific, but you can get the drift. The poster was talking about prints.
But I'm real interested in the D800 and a Zeiss 25mm prime lens.
The AA filter thing confuses me.
But I can't wait to get up to a full frame sensor.
I'm looking for big (20x30+) prints, that are sharp and clean.
(I have shot Nikon and Rollei Med format since 1971...)