Posted by David Prichard on February 9, 2012 at 12:42 PM
About a year ago I purchased a Sigma 180 macro. I'm less than happy with many of the results which I attribute to technique rather than lens quality.
I have used it as a telephoto and some hand held macro shots with excellent sharpness. It is when I put it on the tripod the results become inconsistent.
On the tripod I use a cable release, mirror up, manual focus, maximum aperture f22 with generally longer exposures in the half to one second range. As I often am shooting in snow or mud, one thought is the tripod my be sinking though results seem to indicate softness rather than motion. As to aperture, research is quite contradictory with some going for the largest number a lens can provide and others maintaining between F8 and f22.
Hi, I have a 70-180 macro, so can share my tips:
1. attach the lens to the tripod head using the tripod collar, rather than attaching to the camera
2. Be sure the tripod is steady for this long-ish exposure - either hold the camera with your hand/arm along the top (preferred) or hang a beanbag weith from the tripod
3. Consider snow spikes for the feet if the snow is deep enough that you can't plant the tripod on solid ground.
4. a higher F-stop should be no problem. Try the highest you have
5. consider stacking if still soft
6. do you really need a 1/2-1 second exposure?
Hope this helps -
Sandy
Posted by Wayne Jones on February 9, 2012 at 1:38 PM
Dave, I have used several macros over the past 40 years, including the Sigma 150, which I think is one of the sharpest lenses in the world. The tests I have seen indicate that the Sigma 180 is very sharp also. Your good results with longer-distance and hand-held shots make me suspect that the lens quality is not your problem. I would guess that your tripod-mounted shots are also your very close shots, and the problems you have would occur with ANY long macro. The problem with very close macro shots, especially with longer lenses, is paper-thin depth-of-field.
Shooting at small apertures like f/22 can degrade sharpness with some lenses, especially at 100mm. or shorter, but it should not be a problem with the 180(because the actual phyical size of the aperture increases with focal length). Pixel-peeping will show slightly sharper results at f/16 or f/11 IF the subject is all in focus, but that's the trade-off in macro.
Macro work is inherently difficult due to shallow depth-of-field. Follow Sandy's advice for better results, and if stacking is not practical, you might be happier with a shorter Macro, such as a 50mm or 60mm for your very close shots, as long as the shorter lens-to-subject distance is not a problem.
Posted by Richard Ditch on February 9, 2012 at 3:09 PM
I've used Nikon macro lenses (55. 105, 200) for about 40 years now and still use 105 and 200 with my digital bodies. I agree about the issues of very limited DOF when taking close ups. I too suspect your issues are with the long shutter time and the very small aperture. f/22 is towards the minimum end of the aperture scale, not the maximum. The "f" in f-number represents the focal length, and the "/" indicates division, so f/22 for a 180m lens tells us the aperture is 8mm in diameter. When apertures are very small diffraction lowers resolution.
Looking at the images in your gallery I see you shoot at f/32 and ISO 100 for 1/3rd second shutter speed. It is hard to judge the scale of your subject but I don't think f/32 was necessary here. I'd open up to f/16 of even f/11 for a relatively flat subject, and I'd also increase the ISO to 200 or 400 to get much higher shutter speeds in the same conditions.
What kind of a camera are you using? I am not sure that vibrations can be distinguished from softness visually. This is exactly the same wording as the old battles that were waged with cameras like the Pentax 67. Although the mirror is locked up, you can still see vibrations from the moving parts. This is particularly a problem between 1/15 and 1 second. Putting a bean bag on top of the camera and using something besides a cable release should help. Like a self timer or remote release. I haven't tried one, but a mirrorless camera seems like a good solution. Or high ISO. And there are some interesting stacking techniques, some done in camera. Seems like every day you read about something new. I like my 200 micro at f16 but not f22. Sorry I don't know more about Sigmas.
I do mount on the collar ring but will follow the suggestions everybody has offered. It's comparing apple to oranges, but I do miss my old Nikkormat and bellows.
Posted by Mike Moats on February 9, 2012 at 4:18 PM
Hey Dave, I saw two of your macro images of frost, and they don't look like you have done any processing with them. I have the Sigma 180 and it's not as sharp shooting as my Tamron lenses so I have to add a lot more sharpening in photoshop to get them sharp looking. The diffraction from small apertures is not a problem as it can be fixed with the sharpening, as if this was really a problem then all of my images would be soft, as I shoot high f/stop numbers all the time, as you have to in macro due to the very shallow depth of field at close range. Your focus point may be off, so try using your live view and zoom in and focus rather then focusing through the viewfinder. With my Sigma 180 I use Unsharp Mask in Photoshop and set the, "Amount" at 250% and the "Radius" at 2,0, and the "Threshold" at 0. This works on all of my images with the 180 Sigma. After that, add a little contrast boost and it should help out. I also use a crop sensor camera which helps with the depth field and sharpness as the smaller sensor captures more of the sweet spot in the lens. I think your camera is a full frame which from my experience in my workshops the full frame don't do as well with the sharpness around the edges as the crop sensors for macro.
New monitor, which I calibrated and then learned, after processing the images, the software had corrupted and needed to be reloaded and the monitor recalibrated. They were sharpened with the Nik sharpening software which shows how soft they were.
It seems the recommendations here are for a higher f/stop though I have always been under the impression the higher the poorer the resolving power.
When it warms up again I'll try and establish different practices as people have suggested. At -35C, heavy mittens aren't conducive to macro photography.
Posted by Mike Moats on February 9, 2012 at 6:02 PM
Hey Dave, you really didn't need a high f/stop here, as the subject looks pretty flat, so you could have got by with a F/11. It didn't say what f/stop you used on those images, but if you were shooting wide open and your focus was slightly off, then that would do it.
Another things is when I got my new D7000 my images were all coming out soft, and sharpening didn't have much effect. I new it wasn't the lenses because they were fine with my Fuji S5. I called the Tamron tech people and they said sometimes the lenses need to be adjusted for the camera. Adjusting the elements in the lens is what they said. I never got around to sending the camera in, but at one of my workshops I was taking the camera off the tripod and it slipped out of my hand and hit the floor. Lucky the floor was carpeted so it didn't seem to do any damage. I later noticed that when taking my lens off that it was hard to twist off, It was also hard to put the lens on the camera. So during the fall it must have cocked the lens a little. Since that fall the camera is producing really sharp images, so what ever happened, the the fall improved the sharpness of the images. Maybe yours had some type of change in the lens that it is not shooting as sharp as you say it once was. The Tamron techs told me that lenses can get out of whack with the elements. If it continues to be a problem, you may want to send the camera in and have the tech people check it.
Posted by Nathan Buck on February 9, 2012 at 6:26 PM
Hi David.
I consistently get very sharp results from my Sigma 180 macro, even at f22. (In fact, I just posted a photo of a dahlia in flora). Sounds like you have received some good suggestions.
Hello Dave- just some opinions besides the excellent advices of the other members- I had a micro Nikkor 105 VR already, but last year I was looking for a longer macro lens, and I decided to buy an used Sigma 180mm f3,5, probably the same model that you have- Its color rendering is excellent and produces very sharp images, in many conditions- I’m using it on 95% of the close-up shots I make, and I think it deserves all the great reputation it has in the macro world- Nonetheless it’s a pretty big lens, and to obtain sharp images the system tripod+ head+ camera should be well balanced in terms of quality and sturdiness- With this lens obviously you must use the collar attached to the tripod, and I found the Sigma collar very sturdy- As for head, if you make a lot of macros I’d recommend a geared head rather than a ball-head, especially if you photograph in difficult conditions- Obviously the tripod must be pretty strong, and in the most difficult situations I found very useful using a weight attached to the hook of the tripod- As for camera settings, I think that Sigma performs at its best when the aperture is within the range f4,5-f14, and usually I play with ISO to keep that setting- The narrow DOF is always a problem with macro lens, but I guess that in many situations keeping an OOF part of the image helps to keep the sense of depth of the picture- I hope you’ll have a great fun with macros, Fabio
Discussion
10 repliesI have used it as a telephoto and some hand held macro shots with excellent sharpness. It is when I put it on the tripod the results become inconsistent.
On the tripod I use a cable release, mirror up, manual focus, maximum aperture f22 with generally longer exposures in the half to one second range. As I often am shooting in snow or mud, one thought is the tripod my be sinking though results seem to indicate softness rather than motion. As to aperture, research is quite contradictory with some going for the largest number a lens can provide and others maintaining between F8 and f22.
I'm at a loss and pointers would be welcome.
1. attach the lens to the tripod head using the tripod collar, rather than attaching to the camera
2. Be sure the tripod is steady for this long-ish exposure - either hold the camera with your hand/arm along the top (preferred) or hang a beanbag weith from the tripod
3. Consider snow spikes for the feet if the snow is deep enough that you can't plant the tripod on solid ground.
4. a higher F-stop should be no problem. Try the highest you have
5. consider stacking if still soft
6. do you really need a 1/2-1 second exposure?
Hope this helps -
Sandy
Shooting at small apertures like f/22 can degrade sharpness with some lenses, especially at 100mm. or shorter, but it should not be a problem with the 180(because the actual phyical size of the aperture increases with focal length). Pixel-peeping will show slightly sharper results at f/16 or f/11 IF the subject is all in focus, but that's the trade-off in macro.
Macro work is inherently difficult due to shallow depth-of-field. Follow Sandy's advice for better results, and if stacking is not practical, you might be happier with a shorter Macro, such as a 50mm or 60mm for your very close shots, as long as the shorter lens-to-subject distance is not a problem.
Looking at the images in your gallery I see you shoot at f/32 and ISO 100 for 1/3rd second shutter speed. It is hard to judge the scale of your subject but I don't think f/32 was necessary here. I'd open up to f/16 of even f/11 for a relatively flat subject, and I'd also increase the ISO to 200 or 400 to get much higher shutter speeds in the same conditions.
I do mount on the collar ring but will follow the suggestions everybody has offered. It's comparing apple to oranges, but I do miss my old Nikkormat and bellows.
New monitor, which I calibrated and then learned, after processing the images, the software had corrupted and needed to be reloaded and the monitor recalibrated. They were sharpened with the Nik sharpening software which shows how soft they were.
It seems the recommendations here are for a higher f/stop though I have always been under the impression the higher the poorer the resolving power.
When it warms up again I'll try and establish different practices as people have suggested. At -35C, heavy mittens aren't conducive to macro photography.
Another things is when I got my new D7000 my images were all coming out soft, and sharpening didn't have much effect. I new it wasn't the lenses because they were fine with my Fuji S5. I called the Tamron tech people and they said sometimes the lenses need to be adjusted for the camera. Adjusting the elements in the lens is what they said. I never got around to sending the camera in, but at one of my workshops I was taking the camera off the tripod and it slipped out of my hand and hit the floor. Lucky the floor was carpeted so it didn't seem to do any damage. I later noticed that when taking my lens off that it was hard to twist off, It was also hard to put the lens on the camera. So during the fall it must have cocked the lens a little. Since that fall the camera is producing really sharp images, so what ever happened, the the fall improved the sharpness of the images. Maybe yours had some type of change in the lens that it is not shooting as sharp as you say it once was. The Tamron techs told me that lenses can get out of whack with the elements. If it continues to be a problem, you may want to send the camera in and have the tech people check it.
I consistently get very sharp results from my Sigma 180 macro, even at f22. (In fact, I just posted a photo of a dahlia in flora). Sounds like you have received some good suggestions.
Nathan