Posted by Vincent Jones on April 25, 2006 at 12:11 PM
Thanks for the supportive comments on my recent image upload, very much appreciated
Because I do nothing with the images I take could that be one of the reasons I am feeling like I am, lack of direction
When I take images they have always been for my own pleasure & for the pleasure of sharing them with others on the few forums I visit. Having taken up photography in 2004, what I have learnt from these forums is out of this world, especially this forum, talk about a crash course in wildlife photography
Can I ask for a bit of advice from those who publish their images or use their images in a commercial way. Honesty please... Are the images I am posting in a league where funds can be made?
The reason I am asking is because it could be a direction I need to take, basically it as never interested me. You never know it could become another avenue of earning funds for the Barn Owl Centre I represent.
This as gotta be better than the repeated days (Groundhog Day)of image taken/upload to forum
I look forward to any advice from those who take images for commercial reasons
Hi Vince
Have a look at some of the agencies-Alamy comes to mind and you will see that your images are more than good enough sell, Extra income is always welcome so why not
I know an awful lot of people still think photographers make pots of money selling photos. It doesn't happen.
Very few people make lots of money from individual photo sales - money is made from selling often (unless you get that one in a lifetime photo of Tony Blair eating blancmange off Gordon Brown's backside!). A frontpage on a big selling magazine is only going to NET you a couple of hundred quid - fillers are often just double figures. It doesn't take Carol Vordeman to work out just how many you need to sell to make a reasonable (not even GOOD) living.
I have just seen Daves post and whilst what he says is true (that your images are good - very good in fact) it doesn't mean that they are what a picture buyer wants. There is a world of difference between aestheticism and business need - a photograph that creates oohs and aahs from an audience of photographsers may get overlooked by a picture buyer simply because it does not fit a brief.
Most photographers make their money from knowing how to do what they do not from the end result!
Sory to be a bit negative but that's the way it is
Good luck
Barrie
Posted by Vincent Jones on April 25, 2006 at 1:30 PM
Thanks Dave & Barry,
To make lots of money is the last thing I want to do, to make some is OK (I think), it might just be another channel to go down rather than simply posting images on forums. If want to make money I would get a job that involves not working with birds of prey.
I think to have an image selected for use is much better than the money side of things, some might think this as a stupid statement but there is sometimes more to life than money even though it helps to lead a decent lifestyle whatever that is
Alamy might be a good idea
Posted by Rene de Heer on April 25, 2006 at 1:49 PM
I used to be a with a few agencies but for the last couple of years i am doing it "solo" and with much more success, not that it has made me rich but i do sell some and publish some as well.
Its crazy to share 30-40 or 50% of the generated value of an image with an agency. Also they are often spoilt for choice!
Nowadays you dont necessarily need to be a great photographer to have your images published. Its more and more a matter of marketing yourself and "to know the right people".
Also there is very little money in photography. There are many photographers about, they all have the money to buy a camera and lenses, have spare time on their hands so they are able to take some images meaning the market is flooded.
Its like what Barrie says; its not about whether you make a superb image, its more whether a publisher "sees" added value in the image.
Saying that; i see images of birds in various magazines published that i wouldnt want to store on my hard drives anytime!
Also: magazines are more and more interested not only in images but in a story related to the images. Thats also a problem for some; you can be a good photographer but a lousy writer!
Im glad im not a professional Naturephotographer, dont have the pressure,i can take images when i want and if i can sell a few...even better!
to have an image selected for use is much better than the money side of things
A bit of a dangerous road that one Vince. A lot of photographers go in for so called 'vanity publishing' where they are happy to see their work published for nothing more than a credit. Publishers love these people as it saves them having to pay those of us trying to earn a living
If an image is worth publishing, it is worth paying for. I do not try and sell myself as a nature photographer - that is something I do for fun (when I get the time) however, two weeks ago I had a Red Squirrel image 'bought' by a national environment organisation for use at their national conference on a banner. Just before I sent th eimage, they changed their mind. The guy was honest enough to tell me he had seen a similar image on someones account at PBase and they had let then use it for free.
I am sure some amateur photographer is sitting behind his desk doing his 9 to 5 job for which he is being paid is feeling very good at someone wanting his work but this particular photographer trying to earn a living is well p****d off
Barrie
Posted by Vincent Jones on April 25, 2006 at 2:07 PM
I understand where you are coming from Barrie & the last thing I would want to do is P*ss anyone off by giving an image away for purely my own vanity purposes. I have sold some images I have taken before & for one image I said I wanted £300, this was for one project only, this image was to be used on a milk carton in Yorkshire & they did pay it to my amazement. The image used was of a Barn Owl in flight & no way was it any good in my honest opinion, they liked it, they wanted it & they got it, everyone was happy. The carton they sent me showed the image 2.5inches by 1.5inches. It didn't look to bad on the product.
I won't charge schools but I will charge other estabishments depending on their size.
I do like the sound of self marketing especially after just going through the jargon on Alamy
Easy way to look at it Vince...it costs you money to get the shots - even if that is simply in petrol and wear and tear on your tyres or shoe leather...then start adding in the cost of your gear, and replacing it every few years, then add the computers and software.....
So, now tell me why you should subsidise anyone by giving them a shot for free, especially if they are going to make money out of it themselves! OK - only one reason, you support that one particular good cause (and yes, you are allowed one ).
Decide if you're going to stick with it and simply enjoy it for the sake of photographing, or if you're going to go for it and make "money" from sales. They're different ball-games and mindsets, and you need to work out which you want to have.
ps - There is no way schools get anything for free, they pay the same as everyone else. They have budgets just like other businesses, and can pay for people to give workshops etc in Drama, Sports, Music and so on....so why shouldn't they pay too? They also have to pay license fees for their drama/music productions, so again - why not for their photos?!
Posted by Peter Barritt on April 25, 2006 at 2:36 PM
Hi Vince. Are your images good enough? Definitely IMHO. I enjoy selling images via Alamy...my slides used to just sit in boxes. I get a thrill from knowing that a few hundred thousand people are eating chips out a of paper with one of my photos on. It means my hobby can be virtually cost-neutral and I can buy some great gear. The market is very competitive however and wildlife is a tiny part. Most photos are full of beautiful birds with nice chest markings and plenty of make-up. There are probably a handful of professional wildlife photographers making a decent living in this country, whereas there are hundreds or thousands of wedding and commercial photographers.
Wildlife and landscape photography is an art as far as I'm concerned and that's why sharing it with the public has it's place. Why not put some of your best images in frames in the centre, sell postcards etc. Alamy is a good place to start because they are interested only in quality and not content. Trying to get taken on by a wildlife agency is much harder. Email me at petebarritt@hotmail.com if you want any help getting started with Alamy. 30% commission is fair in my book, as I don't have to do any marketing or selling, chasing up bills, invoicing etc etc which i simply haven't got time for. Partly I was keen to know whether my work could compete and sell against professional competition. For me too, the money is not the most crucial part. On the other hand I do get a thrill seeing my photos in newspapers, magazines, etc and the monthly cheque is always better than a kick in the crotch.
+ Don't go down the path of Royalty-Free. You do the rest of us out of sales, and you lose control of what your images are used for. For example, how would you like to see a shot of Kaln being used to promote a major TV series, DVD, Video and book (with sales in the millions), but you only recieved a measly £30-£40 for the use of that image? Could you walk into a DVD or book store or watch that series without feeling cheated or bitter?
+ Be prepared to walk away from a deal if you aren't happy with it. Don't cave in to the vanity of seeing something in print. If the buyer wants an image that badly, then they'll buy it. It's actually quite easy to turn down work "for a credit", and it's surprising how many come back and buy the shots.
Posted by Vincent Jones on April 25, 2006 at 3:14 PM
No problem here Nick, I won't be giving images away IF I SELL ANY THAT IS lol There are other photographers to think of to. All I am doing is trying to find a direction, which I think I have now found.
Cheers all for the important feedback provided. I will keep the forum updated on how things go
Sorry to hear you're feeling a bit uninspired at the moment.
I know nothing about the commercial side of things but I like to think I can recognise a good quality imge when I see one.and I've certainly seen many of those from you,every bit as good,and better,than plenty of published work,IMHO.
Have you considered/tried any other types of photography,perhaps some achitectural,candids,landscapes,sports,etc,etc. I find it makes a refreshing change and keeps the creative juices and motivation going.
What about setting yourself some projects,perhaps documenting a favourite location,capturing and putting together a portfolio of a theme of your choice, entering some competitions, joing a camera club,etc.etc.
As a thought - why not try getting a very small qty of cards/postcards/poster prints done of one or two of your best shots of the birds at the centre. Don't go spending a fortune on it, but simply test the water and see if there is a market for them. If they sell reasonably, then you could think to get a few more done. Also, that way, you keep everything within your control at the centre.
I'm sure you could sell a few prints of Kaln (even without crossed eyes ).
Hello Vince
Due to my previous activities at the farm, taking photos of groups of people and selling the prints to them, I seemed to have gone down the route of framing and selling my images.
It takes a bit of time, and I have had to sell my best portfolio at various galleries,but it is gradually taking off.
Why not print and frame your images for sale at the centre, you can always give the centre a percentage.
Best wishes
Phil
PS As a guidline I sell a framed A2 at £110, and framed A3 at £75.
Posted by Elliott Neep on April 25, 2006 at 3:53 PM
Hi Vince,
I recently turned fullt-ime wildlife pro and its bloody tough! The main thing you realise is that much of the joy in wildlife photography can be lost due to the sheer pressure of getting shots and working on simultaneous projects (many of which can fail).
Alamy is a safe bet. You will see that there is loads of crap on there so your chaffinch will blow away most of the competition. But be aware that, as Barrie said, there is a great deal of difference between wildlife photographs and commercial wildlife images. You have to take a great deal into account before you even press the button... things like composing for magazine header, framing, room for copy. One there own an image shot for all these can look a bit odd, until text is overlaid. There is a limited market for straight-forward portraits. Its action and interaction that seems to sell well. Writing is the other big difference. An area where I need to really up my game.
Be sure to speak to the Owl Centre and get your work framed and sold via the shop. It will promote you and the centre and earn you both cash. It will also give you an excuse to get creative with the photography.
All said, I'm sure this us just a seasonal slump. We all get them!
Yeah Vince, seems to me you're sitting (as usual) on top of a great outlet (owllet) for your great work, come on knock up framed pics, calenders, mugs, T shirts. Give a certain percentage to the shop and bob's your uncle.
I am in the fortunate position of being a contributing photographer and being very closely tied to the image library here at the museum, I also work full time as a scientific photographer for the museum.
By all means submit images to a library, the self promotion route is fine if you have the time and the expertise to promote and do all the required admin, if not then a library will do most of the hard work for you, a general rule that is often quoted is that you will make around £1 per image per year, how accurate that is I have no idea.
As said images that sell can be totally different to what you yourself wish to achieve for your own pleasure, picture buyers are a strange breed and will only be looking at images that fit their interpretation of the brief, a good rule to follow is to allow plenty of cropping options...
Another thing to bear in mind is the minimum requirments that a library sets, Alamy for instance require a 50meg unsharpened file, the NHM requires a 300ppi A4 file, if you are doing any cropping you will have difficulty meeting those requirements..
I do believe that a good way would be to sell framed prints at the centre, you have some wonderful images of your residents that I'm sure the average visitor would not be able to match for a good many reasons, whilst they are still in the OOH and AWE stage a good image would be very tempting to them. Importantly don't sell yourself short as has been said it does cost a lot of money to attain these images....
I believe we will still take submissions so if you want you can PM me,
All the best & good luck
Posted by Vincent Jones on April 27, 2006 at 5:52 PM
UPDATE WITH A & a
After the advice given I am now in receipt of 340 images I have just had printed at Jessops, these being of the birds here at our Centre. 170 @ 6"X4" & 170 @ 9"X 6" - 17 different images X 10 of each size. I was amazed that 340 photos only cost £28.96.
The 9 X 6 images I have sold before at £2.00 each, this was just 20 in number & they all sold very quickly. Lets see how long it takes to sell 340 photos.
Fair play on Jessops processing, the quality in matt is awesome
Thanks again for all the advice given.
Can I add that my job role at the Centre is the founder member, all funds go direct to the charity.
Your photos are good enough, but my best advice concurs with Rene's advice; get a market and know your market! Alternatively, use the hit and hope method and blanket bomb an agency with good images.
FWIW. You can wander, hungry, for years in the "I want to be a wildlife photographer' wilderness; this will not be because your images are bad, but because they are not what the customer: we all admire craftsmanship but don't neccessary want to purchase it.
This, IMO, he major reasons why I think people revert to vanity publishing; they have a good product but no recognition, or predefined outlet, for it.
Please note, and without any disrepect intended to those Pro's here, most of the 'wildlife' Pro's do not get there income predominantly from Wildlife/nature photography and it is easy to see why; the Pro-Am market is also saturated with possibly as good a photographer - who can sell cheaper. The differentator is that a Pro-Am should have less time to market their material so giving the Pro the edge. Marketing and Business nouse are just ( or looking at some pros published work , more) important than the image itself.
For editorial use also consider your whole offering, writing and timing, is possibly more important than the picture!
If you define, then refine, your wildlife market you will get sales; but you may not get a living.
PS. be very wary of competitions and their clauses...
PPS. for those that are considering writing I would first do yourself a huge favour and read, "Eats, Shoots & Leaves" by Lynne Truss.
Posted by Vincent Jones on April 28, 2006 at 4:53 AM
Hi Tom, What you & Rene say is probably very true. If I go back to 2004 when I entered into this addictive world of photography, I only got involved because we (The Barn Owl Centre) used outside photographers. This cost our charity a lot of money & we lost control of the images taken of our birds even though we put a lot of time in for the photographer to get the shots. Having it in-house now is much better & we feel we have a bit more control.
With regards to direction I think I need to focus a bit of my time on creating our own merchandise for our customers, such as prints, mugs, keyrings, tee-shits etc. Like Tim & a few others said above.
To concentrate on being a so called wildlife photographer, this I think is to much effort & not what I want as this would only be a distraction from what I do here, which is far more important. To enjoy going out photographing wildlife like I do for pleasure is in a way far much better I think. I have the kit & I am acquiring the photography skills (slowly) to enjoy the results I am getting & in a way its nice to share these results with other photographers no matter how good they are, its all about learning & learning I am. Maybe wildlife presentations here at the Centre is the key direction.
Anyway, I now have a bit of a spark back in me.
Thanks for all the input given from the above.
I hope the above makes sense
Posted by Elliott Neep on April 28, 2006 at 5:21 AM
Hi Vincent,
If you wanted to combine the Owl Centre and Photography AND raise more cash for the centre... have you considered doing Photography Workshops. Rouse was charging about £70-£100pp/day at the Gloucester Falconry Centre. This was just to photo free flying raptors. They still have jessies (is that the right spelling!?) on. Might be something worth thinking about as very few AM, Pro-AMs have time or field craft to find owls, especially as most are nocturnal!
Posted by Vincent Jones on April 28, 2006 at 5:35 AM
Hi Elliot, Worshops are already in place, just a little more promotion I think. The link to Photography Days offered is in the Barn Owl Centre's online shop, plus Dave Slater is organising some to. I think the problem is that they are weekdays & not weekends, this is because I have very little free time available at weekends due to other activities. Weekdays are very peaceful & more concentrated with no distractions, this in my opinion is better for the photographer.
Discussion
22 repliesBecause I do nothing with the images I take could that be one of the reasons I am feeling like I am, lack of direction
When I take images they have always been for my own pleasure & for the pleasure of sharing them with others on the few forums I visit. Having taken up photography in 2004, what I have learnt from these forums is out of this world, especially this forum, talk about a crash course in wildlife photography
Can I ask for a bit of advice from those who publish their images or use their images in a commercial way. Honesty please... Are the images I am posting in a league where funds can be made?
The reason I am asking is because it could be a direction I need to take, basically it as never interested me. You never know it could become another avenue of earning funds for the Barn Owl Centre I represent.
This as gotta be better than the repeated days (Groundhog Day)of image taken/upload to forum
I look forward to any advice from those who take images for commercial reasons
Vince
Have a look at some of the agencies-Alamy comes to mind and you will see that your images are more than good enough sell, Extra income is always welcome so why not
It depends on your expectations.
I know an awful lot of people still think photographers make pots of money selling photos. It doesn't happen.
Very few people make lots of money from individual photo sales - money is made from selling often (unless you get that one in a lifetime photo of Tony Blair eating blancmange off Gordon Brown's backside!). A frontpage on a big selling magazine is only going to NET you a couple of hundred quid - fillers are often just double figures. It doesn't take Carol Vordeman to work out just how many you need to sell to make a reasonable (not even GOOD) living.
I have just seen Daves post and whilst what he says is true (that your images are good - very good in fact) it doesn't mean that they are what a picture buyer wants. There is a world of difference between aestheticism and business need - a photograph that creates oohs and aahs from an audience of photographsers may get overlooked by a picture buyer simply because it does not fit a brief.
Most photographers make their money from knowing how to do what they do not from the end result!
Sory to be a bit negative but that's the way it is
Good luck
Barrie
To make lots of money is the last thing I want to do, to make some is OK (I think), it might just be another channel to go down rather than simply posting images on forums. If want to make money I would get a job that involves not working with birds of prey.
I think to have an image selected for use is much better than the money side of things, some might think this as a stupid statement but there is sometimes more to life than money even though it helps to lead a decent lifestyle whatever that is
Alamy might be a good idea
Its crazy to share 30-40 or 50% of the generated value of an image with an agency. Also they are often spoilt for choice!
Nowadays you dont necessarily need to be a great photographer to have your images published. Its more and more a matter of marketing yourself and "to know the right people".
Also there is very little money in photography. There are many photographers about, they all have the money to buy a camera and lenses, have spare time on their hands so they are able to take some images meaning the market is flooded.
Its like what Barrie says; its not about whether you make a superb image, its more whether a publisher "sees" added value in the image.
Saying that; i see images of birds in various magazines published that i wouldnt want to store on my hard drives anytime!
Also: magazines are more and more interested not only in images but in a story related to the images. Thats also a problem for some; you can be a good photographer but a lousy writer!
Im glad im not a professional Naturephotographer, dont have the pressure,i can take images when i want and if i can sell a few...even better!
I hope i make a bit of sense
Rene de heer
A bit of a dangerous road that one Vince. A lot of photographers go in for so called 'vanity publishing' where they are happy to see their work published for nothing more than a credit. Publishers love these people as it saves them having to pay those of us trying to earn a living
If an image is worth publishing, it is worth paying for. I do not try and sell myself as a nature photographer - that is something I do for fun (when I get the time) however, two weeks ago I had a Red Squirrel image 'bought' by a national environment organisation for use at their national conference on a banner. Just before I sent th eimage, they changed their mind. The guy was honest enough to tell me he had seen a similar image on someones account at PBase and they had let then use it for free.
I am sure some amateur photographer is sitting behind his desk doing his 9 to 5 job for which he is being paid is feeling very good at someone wanting his work but this particular photographer trying to earn a living is well p****d off
Barrie
I won't charge schools but I will charge other estabishments depending on their size.
I do like the sound of self marketing especially after just going through the jargon on Alamy
So, now tell me why you should subsidise anyone by giving them a shot for free, especially if they are going to make money out of it themselves! OK - only one reason, you support that one particular good cause (and yes, you are allowed one
Decide if you're going to stick with it and simply enjoy it for the sake of photographing, or if you're going to go for it and make "money" from sales. They're different ball-games and mindsets, and you need to work out which you want to have.
ps - There is no way schools get anything for free, they pay the same as everyone else. They have budgets just like other businesses, and can pay for people to give workshops etc in Drama, Sports, Music and so on....so why shouldn't they pay too? They also have to pay license fees for their drama/music productions, so again - why not for their photos?!
Wildlife and landscape photography is an art as far as I'm concerned and that's why sharing it with the public has it's place. Why not put some of your best images in frames in the centre, sell postcards etc. Alamy is a good place to start because they are interested only in quality and not content. Trying to get taken on by a wildlife agency is much harder. Email me at petebarritt@hotmail.com if you want any help getting started with Alamy. 30% commission is fair in my book, as I don't have to do any marketing or selling, chasing up bills, invoicing etc etc which i simply haven't got time for. Partly I was keen to know whether my work could compete and sell against professional competition. For me too, the money is not the most crucial part. On the other hand I do get a thrill seeing my photos in newspapers, magazines, etc and the monthly cheque is always better than a kick in the crotch.
A
+ Don't go down the path of Royalty-Free. You do the rest of us out of sales, and you lose control of what your images are used for. For example, how would you like to see a shot of Kaln being used to promote a major TV series, DVD, Video and book (with sales in the millions), but you only recieved a measly £30-£40 for the use of that image? Could you walk into a DVD or book store or watch that series without feeling cheated or bitter?
+ Be prepared to walk away from a deal if you aren't happy with it. Don't cave in to the vanity of seeing something in print. If the buyer wants an image that badly, then they'll buy it. It's actually quite easy to turn down work "for a credit", and it's surprising how many come back and buy the shots.
Cheers all for the important feedback provided. I will keep the forum updated on how things go
Cheers
EDIT: Tim, are those stamps still available
Sorry to hear you're feeling a bit uninspired at the moment.
I know nothing about the commercial side of things but I like to think I can recognise a good quality imge when I see one.and I've certainly seen many of those from you,every bit as good,and better,than plenty of published work,IMHO.
Have you considered/tried any other types of photography,perhaps some achitectural,candids,landscapes,sports,etc,etc. I find it makes a refreshing change and keeps the creative juices and motivation going.
What about setting yourself some projects,perhaps documenting a favourite location,capturing and putting together a portfolio of a theme of your choice, entering some competitions, joing a camera club,etc.etc.
As a thought - why not try getting a very small qty of cards/postcards/poster prints done of one or two of your best shots of the birds at the centre. Don't go spending a fortune on it, but simply test the water and see if there is a market for them. If they sell reasonably, then you could think to get a few more done. Also, that way, you keep everything within your control at the centre.
I'm sure you could sell a few prints of Kaln (even without crossed eyes
Due to my previous activities at the farm, taking photos of groups of people and selling the prints to them, I seemed to have gone down the route of framing and selling my images.
It takes a bit of time, and I have had to sell my best portfolio at various galleries,but it is gradually taking off.
Why not print and frame your images for sale at the centre, you can always give the centre a percentage.
Best wishes
Phil
PS As a guidline I sell a framed A2 at £110, and framed A3 at £75.
I recently turned fullt-ime wildlife pro and its bloody tough! The main thing you realise is that much of the joy in wildlife photography can be lost due to the sheer pressure of getting shots and working on simultaneous projects (many of which can fail).
Alamy is a safe bet. You will see that there is loads of crap on there so your chaffinch will blow away most of the competition. But be aware that, as Barrie said, there is a great deal of difference between wildlife photographs and commercial wildlife images. You have to take a great deal into account before you even press the button... things like composing for magazine header, framing, room for copy. One there own an image shot for all these can look a bit odd, until text is overlaid. There is a limited market for straight-forward portraits. Its action and interaction that seems to sell well. Writing is the other big difference. An area where I need to really up my game.
Be sure to speak to the Owl Centre and get your work framed and sold via the shop. It will promote you and the centre and earn you both cash. It will also give you an excuse to get creative with the photography.
All said, I'm sure this us just a seasonal slump. We all get them!
Tim
I am in the fortunate position of being a contributing photographer and being very closely tied to the image library here at the museum, I also work full time as a scientific photographer for the museum.
By all means submit images to a library, the self promotion route is fine if you have the time and the expertise to promote and do all the required admin, if not then a library will do most of the hard work for you, a general rule that is often quoted is that you will make around £1 per image per year, how accurate that is I have no idea.
As said images that sell can be totally different to what you yourself wish to achieve for your own pleasure, picture buyers are a strange breed and will only be looking at images that fit their interpretation of the brief, a good rule to follow is to allow plenty of cropping options...
Another thing to bear in mind is the minimum requirments that a library sets, Alamy for instance require a 50meg unsharpened file, the NHM requires a 300ppi A4 file, if you are doing any cropping you will have difficulty meeting those requirements..
I do believe that a good way would be to sell framed prints at the centre, you have some wonderful images of your residents that I'm sure the average visitor would not be able to match for a good many reasons, whilst they are still in the OOH and AWE stage a good image would be very tempting to them. Importantly don't sell yourself short as has been said it does cost a lot of money to attain these images....
I believe we will still take submissions so if you want you can PM me,
All the best & good luck
After the advice given I am now in receipt of 340 images I have just had printed at Jessops, these being of the birds here at our Centre. 170 @ 6"X4" & 170 @ 9"X 6" - 17 different images X 10 of each size. I was amazed that 340 photos only cost £28.96.
The 9 X 6 images I have sold before at £2.00 each, this was just 20 in number & they all sold very quickly. Lets see how long it takes to sell 340 photos.
Fair play on Jessops processing, the quality in matt is awesome
Thanks again for all the advice given.
Can I add that my job role at the Centre is the founder member, all funds go direct to the charity.
Your photos are good enough, but my best advice concurs with Rene's advice; get a market and know your market! Alternatively, use the hit and hope method and blanket bomb an agency with good images.
FWIW. You can wander, hungry, for years in the "I want to be a wildlife photographer' wilderness; this will not be because your images are bad, but because they are not what the customer: we all admire craftsmanship but don't neccessary want to purchase it.
This, IMO, he major reasons why I think people revert to vanity publishing; they have a good product but no recognition, or predefined outlet, for it.
Please note, and without any disrepect intended to those Pro's here, most of the 'wildlife' Pro's do not get there income predominantly from Wildlife/nature photography and it is easy to see why; the Pro-Am market is also saturated with possibly as good a photographer - who can sell cheaper. The differentator is that a Pro-Am should have less time to market their material so giving the Pro the edge. Marketing and Business nouse are just ( or looking at some pros published work
For editorial use also consider your whole offering, writing and timing, is possibly more important than the picture!
If you define, then refine, your wildlife market you will get sales; but you may not get a living.
PS. be very wary of competitions and their clauses...
PPS. for those that are considering writing I would first do yourself a huge favour and read, "Eats, Shoots & Leaves" by Lynne Truss.
With regards to direction I think I need to focus a bit of my time on creating our own merchandise for our customers, such as prints, mugs, keyrings, tee-shits etc. Like Tim & a few others said above.
To concentrate on being a so called wildlife photographer, this I think is to much effort & not what I want as this would only be a distraction from what I do here, which is far more important. To enjoy going out photographing wildlife like I do for pleasure is in a way far much better I think. I have the kit & I am acquiring the photography skills (slowly) to enjoy the results I am getting & in a way its nice to share these results with other photographers no matter how good they are, its all about learning & learning I am. Maybe wildlife presentations here at the Centre is the key direction.
Anyway, I now have a bit of a spark back in me.
Thanks for all the input given from the above.
I hope the above makes sense
If you wanted to combine the Owl Centre and Photography AND raise more cash for the centre... have you considered doing Photography Workshops. Rouse was charging about £70-£100pp/day at the Gloucester Falconry Centre. This was just to photo free flying raptors. They still have jessies (is that the right spelling!?) on. Might be something worth thinking about as very few AM, Pro-AMs have time or field craft to find owls, especially as most are nocturnal!
I am trying & thanks for the pointer