Personally, I'd charge. The link back to your site is nice, but not likely to provide you with any compensation for use of your image. What's the likelihood that someone buying children's clothes from an online boutique is going to also be interested in off-road trip reports and landscape photography?
If she's not intrested in paying money, maybe she'd be willing to head out to McClure pass and fix that sign for you!
Posted by Todd Caudle on April 26, 2006 at 6:13 PM
I'm with Rick, even a small fee ($50-$100) is better than nothing. And if she's not willing to pay even a nominal fee like that (I doubt if she gives her products away for free!), then I'd pass. I let certain non-profits and such use some images for free, but for others, it's pay to play.
Just because it's the internet doesn't mean it doesn't deserve compensation. In fact, I would be doubly careful with the request because online image theft is far too easy. I would probably ask what dimensions she planned to use and sell it to her only in that size, or demand final approval of usage before granting any kind of permission.
But I don't have any experience with this sort of thing, so I may be talking about a lot of overkill.
Posted by Scott Borger on April 26, 2006 at 7:02 PM
My personal thoughts:
-let non-profits (that are morally sound) use it for free. If you can contribute to social justice/good, do it (that's how these things keep up and running. Always charge "for profit" ventures. It keeps the market price for photographic services where it needs to be. Also, would you ever email her for some free flower boutique goods? No. She shouldn't be emailing you for free photography. Individual decisions affect markets as a whole.
Posted by Nat Coalson on April 26, 2006 at 7:03 PM
Darren-
Something to consider: is the potential exposure you will get (and the assumed business that results) worth doing it for free? Consider the different types of exposure it could be.... maybe she could mention you in a press release, in an ad, or something else? All kinds of possibilities here.
Doing something without being paid is not the same as doing it for free.
Maybe there is something else she is willing to barter for.
As for payment, there are two ways to approach it:
1. Licensing fee for limited usage rights - one-time payment for use only in the specified medium (ie eBay web site); even on only one page. Make sure that she knows she can't use the image on brochures etc. without paying another fee.
2. Licensing fee for unlimited usage - she can't afford this, and you don't want to offer it. But in some cases this may be the best option.
In both cases, make sure to stipulate that you retain the copyright and she has no claim to it under any circumstances.
Really, you can structure a license agreement however you want, using whatever terms make sense. But whatever you decide, if you are going to allow her to use any image, GET IT IN WRITING. Both parties need to sign an agreement describing the terms.
Even if you agree to let her use the image for no consideration (no money, no barter, no compensation of any kind) you must have her sign an agreement that it is for a specific use only. Otherwise, you're likely to see your image showing up in all kinds of places you never intended.
I believe we small business folks need to help each other out whenever it is mutually beneficial. If you see no benefit in this deal, walk away. Otherwise, I'd recommend you try to come up with a creative solution that you both are happy with.
In any case, be glad she came to you, and didn't just lift the image.
Right on Scott! I'm continually surprised how many buisnesses don't think twice about paying for window washing or photocopies, but assume that photos for business use should be free. After all, -anyone- can take a picture - right?
Ken
Posted by Grant Collier on April 26, 2006 at 11:59 PM
I'm not a stickler for rules and am not complaining here, but since NPN rules seem to be a hot topic right now, I thought I'd ask this. I seem to remember someone saying that discussions on pricing (or at least discussing specific figures on pricing) was against NPN rules. Something about the fear of collusion and violating anti-trust laws. Just curious if this is still the case or if it's been changed (or if I was just high on magic mushrooms and imagining things)?
That being said, I will bravely risk violating the rules and the law and say that I have received a number of requests for use of my images on other web sites. Unless it's for a non-profit, I generally come back with a fairly low price and generally never hear from that person again. So, yes, it does seem that a lot of people expect them for free. I suppose this is just a reality of supply and demand, since there are so many photographers out there and plenty willing to give them out for free or next to nothing. I wouldn't do this, as I like to at least send the message that my photos - especially those I choose to display on my web site - are valuable to me.
Posted by Scott Bacon on April 27, 2006 at 8:57 AM
Hey Darren, I often get similar requests. And like Grant, request a small, reasonable fee along with providing an explanation of why I charge for such uses - a lot of the reasons provided by others above. And I usually never hear from them again...
I do keep such requests, and periodically, go back and check up on the websites to see if they decided to help themselves anyway. And I have caught a couple. One was an eBay store.
I get this same question all the time. Can I use one of your images for free. I was wondering do any of us go to any business and ask for something for free? If so do you think you would get anything for free. Why is it that we as nature photographers have to be insulted with this question. I refuse to give images for free unless it is a nature center or a nature non-profit. I don't mind giving back to nature where I can.
Discussion
10 repliesIf she's not intrested in paying money, maybe she'd be willing to head out to McClure pass and fix that sign for you!
But I don't have any experience with this sort of thing, so I may be talking about a lot of overkill.
-let non-profits (that are morally sound) use it for free. If you can contribute to social justice/good, do it (that's how these things keep up and running. Always charge "for profit" ventures. It keeps the market price for photographic services where it needs to be. Also, would you ever email her for some free flower boutique goods? No. She shouldn't be emailing you for free photography. Individual decisions affect markets as a whole.
Something to consider: is the potential exposure you will get (and the assumed business that results) worth doing it for free? Consider the different types of exposure it could be.... maybe she could mention you in a press release, in an ad, or something else? All kinds of possibilities here.
Doing something without being paid is not the same as doing it for free.
Maybe there is something else she is willing to barter for.
As for payment, there are two ways to approach it:
1. Licensing fee for limited usage rights - one-time payment for use only in the specified medium (ie eBay web site); even on only one page. Make sure that she knows she can't use the image on brochures etc. without paying another fee.
2. Licensing fee for unlimited usage - she can't afford this, and you don't want to offer it. But in some cases this may be the best option.
In both cases, make sure to stipulate that you retain the copyright and she has no claim to it under any circumstances.
Really, you can structure a license agreement however you want, using whatever terms make sense. But whatever you decide, if you are going to allow her to use any image, GET IT IN WRITING. Both parties need to sign an agreement describing the terms.
Even if you agree to let her use the image for no consideration (no money, no barter, no compensation of any kind) you must have her sign an agreement that it is for a specific use only. Otherwise, you're likely to see your image showing up in all kinds of places you never intended.
I believe we small business folks need to help each other out whenever it is mutually beneficial. If you see no benefit in this deal, walk away. Otherwise, I'd recommend you try to come up with a creative solution that you both are happy with.
In any case, be glad she came to you, and didn't just lift the image.
Ken
That being said, I will bravely risk violating the rules and the law and say that I have received a number of requests for use of my images on other web sites. Unless it's for a non-profit, I generally come back with a fairly low price and generally never hear from that person again. So, yes, it does seem that a lot of people expect them for free. I suppose this is just a reality of supply and demand, since there are so many photographers out there and plenty willing to give them out for free or next to nothing. I wouldn't do this, as I like to at least send the message that my photos - especially those I choose to display on my web site - are valuable to me.
I do keep such requests, and periodically, go back and check up on the websites to see if they decided to help themselves anyway. And I have caught a couple.