Ok, so my dad is really interested in taking up avian photography, specifically Birds of Prey. He was bitten by the bird bug a couple of weeks ago when he photographed eagles on the Mississippi River. I guess because I took up photography before he did, he thinks I should know all about what is the best equipment to have to get great pictures for these animals. So I have some questions to help satisfy his interest. Just a little background, he shoots with a Nikon consumer model.
Lens-wise what is the best choice regarding length, f-stop, brand? Should he stick with only a Nikkor lens or are the other off-brand lenses that work well? (I know the best glass tends to be both Nikon and Canon and I'm leery of telling him otherwise, unless I know for sure, which I don't)
How do you shoot them in flight? Do you anticipate their flight pattern and intercept them or do you try to get the shot in the general area of the bird and then crop it later in post-production?
As you can see I know nothing of avian photography but I thought I would cast out a line and see if someone is willing to share some insight with me so I can steer my father in the right direction. Thanks.
Cristina, A lot depends on how much your dad is willing to spend. The 2 or 3 best Nikon bird lenses are all very expensive and quite heavy.
Nikon 300mm F2.8 VR = $5800 (USA version) $5300 (Gray)
Nikon 500 mm F4 VR = $7900 (gray), $8400 (USA)
Nikon 200-400mm VR = $7000 (USA) $6800 (Gray)
One can often find decent used ones of any of these, if cautious.
Most cannot hand-hold these lenses, so that means heavy-duty tripod and heavy-duty tripod head - about another $1000, minimum.
There are some good long Sigma lenses of simlar lengths for a few thousand less, but with good quality (not quite as sharp as the Nikon, imo)
Takes a lot of practice to track in flight and shoot. For a sharp image, you have to focus on the eye, and in a moving bird, that can be pretty tough.
I'd suggest that your dad go to a reliable camera shop and see and feel the long lenses. Then, if he is still interested, rent one for a weekend and try to go out with someone fairly experienced.
Just scratching the surface here... lots more to consider.
Sandy
Posted by Dan Roberts on March 20, 2012 at 11:35 PM
Sandy's advice is good. If he is just getting started and may or may not stick with it, another option is to invest in something like a Sigma 100-300 f/4 or the famous 50-500 "Bigma". For beginners image quality has a lot more to do with technique than equipment and until he reaches the point that lens quality is becoming a limit, there's no need to spend thousands on glass. Even when he reaches the point of considering the purchase of a high end lens, Sandy's advice regarding renting one first is a good idea.
Also per Sandy's advice and contrary to what I did myself, a quality tripod and gimble head will make a huge difference right from the start. An alternative if he is experienced shooting a rifle/shotgun is to go with a Bushhawk rifle stock type mount for shooting BIFs.
But if you really want to do your dad a solid, convince him to stick with landscapes, flowers, etc. and leave the birds alone...
The prices are variable and depends on if Dad wants to use auto focus or manual. Auto focus has improved over time and is pretty reliable nowdays. Shooting birds he will been at least a 200mm minimum and 300mm-500mm lenses are better.
I use a Nikon 70-300mm VR lens-I know it is not the most expensive but works pretty well for me.
Shutter speed is needed to catch birds in flight and tied to the ISO. The faster the shutter speed the more light you need to focus and it is a game to play as you can end up with noise if not enough light is used. I use the Nikon D5100 that is pertty good for noise reduction, the Nikon D7000 has even better reviews. I am not that familiar with Canon, however, there are many Canon users who say they like the produce. You may view some of my birds - still and in flight at : http://www.redbubble.com/people/gidavidson
Posted by Lance Warley on March 21, 2012 at 7:02 AM
Hey thanks everyone for sharing your thoughts and suggestions. They have already been extremely helpful. Lance the article you linked looks to be exactly what I'm looking for regarding technique.
Posted by Brian Gatlin on March 21, 2012 at 9:03 AM
Cristina, shooting raptors is definitely a challenging pursuit. it certainly helps if you're in an area where there are high concentrations of them at least part of the year--otherwise, just finding them may become frustrating.
to get flight shots, you might find a perched bird and sit with it until it takes off, or you might (like you suggested) carefully watch a bird or an area to get a sense for where the birds tend to fly and anticipate their path. the less cropping the better for the final image quality.
in the long run, the longer focal lengths will be best, and the Nikkor models should give sharper results than off brands (at a significant cost). but that doesn't mean that's where he has to start. The bigma or the nikon 80-400 might be more affordable beginnings. However, I'm not sure how fast the autofocus is on these lenses (I shoot Canon and the 100-400 does not autofocus nearly as fast as the 500). Fast autofocus for a bird in flight is key (and don't even think about trying manual focus on a moving subject!).
a tripod is certainly important for these long focal lengths, however, if you're shooting mostly raptors, you might be better off (and cheaper) with some sort of window mount to shoot from the window of your vehicle--raptors are generally much more tolerant of being approached by a car than by a human with a tripod and long lens.
There's nothing better than a brilliant flight shot of a raptor, but they are generally the result of an incredible amount of practice and time in the field. You might want to take a look at Ron Dudley's gallery on this site, he's among the best.
Hope this is helpful.
Posted by Mia McPherson on March 21, 2012 at 11:01 AM
Cristina,
I started off with the Nikkor 70-300mm with VR and then graduated to the Nikkor 80-400mm, I used those two all the time in Florida. With the 80-400mm VR I felt I always had to photograph in good light to get sharp flight/action images because it is a little slow. I've since gone on to the Nikkor 200-400mm VR (usally with a TC)and I love it. Almost all of my Florida images were taken handheld. My Utah images most of them were taken using my noodle from a vehicle.
Starting with something less expensive will give your Dad an idea of the challenges of bird photography flight images because it isn't for everyone.
Posted by Nate Chappell on March 21, 2012 at 1:32 PM
Hi Cristina,
If your dad wants to get really good images of birds in flight without breaking the bank I would recommend either the Nikon 300mm F4 and pair it with the 1.4x teleconverter or the Sigma 50-500 or 150-500 OS lenses. I have been using the Sigma 150-500 lens some lately with the Nikon D7000. It's a pretty good combination for birds in flight. The biggest disadvantage of this lens is it's not very sharp unless you stop down to F8 or so. This lens autofocuses faster than the Nikon 80-400 or the 70-300. My lens is very sharp but I have heard there is some variability in these Sigma lenses and some have had to send theirs back to Sigma to have them adjusted. The 300F4 is sharp wide open so you don't have to worry about stopping down, it's sharper than those smaller Nikon zooms (70-300, 80-400) and acquires autofocus faster. You lose some reach and flexibility compared to the Sigma zoom but with teleconverters you can get the reach back.
For those Canon shooters who want to get excellent bird in flight shots without breaking the bank look first at the Canon 400F5.6 and the Canon 300F4 to get excellent image quality without breaking the bank. These lenses rival the big lenses in image quality but don't have as much length so you are going to have to crop your images more unless you are close. The Sigma zooms listed above are also an option for Canon shooters. An additional advantage of all the lenses that I have listed is that they are lightweight enough for most people to handhold easily enough. I almost always shoot my bird in flight shots handheld. Many pros use these lenses when they are doing handheld bird in flight shots in addition to using a big 500 or 600F4 on a tripod.
All of the lenses listed here cost between $1,000 and $1,700 and can take excellent images. If your dad really gets really serious about bird photography after using one of these lenses for some time, then he could consider buying the really big expensive glass (500, 600F4) (200-400 zoom) but most people are going to have to use those on a tripod.
Has anyone tried pairing the 80-400 Nikon with the D5100 body? That is his current setup. I've read that it is slower but for the price I'm thinking that may be the best option for him right now. The other side is we've discussed (and this is the great thing about family members having the same brand of camera) that we would share the cost of say the 200-400 and subsequently share the use of the lens for birding and general wildlife photography. Practicality is telling me to suggest the 80-400 to start off with but then rationalism is suggesting the 200-400, since that's were we would both like to be eventually anyway.
Ok that covers gear until later, for those who commented on technique---THANKS!!!! We'll get to working on it and let you know how it goes.
Posted by Nate Chappell on March 21, 2012 at 8:23 PM
I haven't used the 80-400 with the D5100 but I have used it with the D90 and the autofocus is rather slow unless as Mia said you have a lot of light and contrast. If that's what you have narrowed it down to, I would strongly suggest going for the 200-400. Just my 2 cents.
Be careful here Christina. The Nikkor 80-400mm is an "AF" lens which means it has no focus motor in the lens and depends on a focus motor in the camera. I do not believe the D5100 has that motor. The lens will still work on the D5100 but he will be stuck with manual focus, and has been mentioned, that is not the way to get sharp pictures of BIF. You want a Nikkor lens with an "AF-S" designation which means it has the motor in the lens (all the newer ones do).
Nate, Walt thanks for the heads-up. My dad and definitely have some discussing to do.
Posted by Roger Rouch on March 22, 2012 at 12:53 PM
I volunteer as an observer at a local hawk watch site during migrations. It's an excellent opportunity to observe and learn more about raptors You might check to see if there is a site near-by.. http://www.hmana.org/sitesel.php. . Most of the photo opportunities there are birds in flight. Decent auto focus is a definite thing to have. I have Canon gear and use a 400mm f5.6 which is light weight and good for the application. I've never had the need for a zoom with shorter focal options and faster lenses are going to be cumbersome. I'm mostly a landscape photo guy and have other lenses for that. I carry a 1.4x teleconverter and tripod for perched birds when searching for raptors in other areas, though I loose autofocus with the teleconverter.
Discussion
14 repliesLens-wise what is the best choice regarding length, f-stop, brand? Should he stick with only a Nikkor lens or are the other off-brand lenses that work well? (I know the best glass tends to be both Nikon and Canon and I'm leery of telling him otherwise, unless I know for sure, which I don't)
How do you shoot them in flight? Do you anticipate their flight pattern and intercept them or do you try to get the shot in the general area of the bird and then crop it later in post-production?
As you can see I know nothing of avian photography but I thought I would cast out a line and see if someone is willing to share some insight with me so I can steer my father in the right direction. Thanks.
Nikon 300mm F2.8 VR = $5800 (USA version) $5300 (Gray)
Nikon 500 mm F4 VR = $7900 (gray), $8400 (USA)
Nikon 200-400mm VR = $7000 (USA) $6800 (Gray)
One can often find decent used ones of any of these, if cautious.
Most cannot hand-hold these lenses, so that means heavy-duty tripod and heavy-duty tripod head - about another $1000, minimum.
There are some good long Sigma lenses of simlar lengths for a few thousand less, but with good quality (not quite as sharp as the Nikon, imo)
Takes a lot of practice to track in flight and shoot. For a sharp image, you have to focus on the eye, and in a moving bird, that can be pretty tough.
I'd suggest that your dad go to a reliable camera shop and see and feel the long lenses. Then, if he is still interested, rent one for a weekend and try to go out with someone fairly experienced.
Just scratching the surface here... lots more to consider.
Sandy
Also per Sandy's advice and contrary to what I did myself, a quality tripod and gimble head will make a huge difference right from the start. An alternative if he is experienced shooting a rifle/shotgun is to go with a Bushhawk rifle stock type mount for shooting BIFs.
But if you really want to do your dad a solid, convince him to stick with landscapes, flowers, etc. and leave the birds alone...
I use a Nikon 70-300mm VR lens-I know it is not the most expensive but works pretty well for me.
Shutter speed is needed to catch birds in flight and tied to the ISO. The faster the shutter speed the more light you need to focus and it is a game to play as you can end up with noise if not enough light is used. I use the Nikon D5100 that is pertty good for noise reduction, the Nikon D7000 has even better reviews. I am not that familiar with Canon, however, there are many Canon users who say they like the produce. You may view some of my birds - still and in flight at : http://www.redbubble.com/people/gidavidson
I agree with Dan's suggestion about starting with something like a 100-300.
btw, your Dad should forget about manual focus. Ancient history for bif.
to get flight shots, you might find a perched bird and sit with it until it takes off, or you might (like you suggested) carefully watch a bird or an area to get a sense for where the birds tend to fly and anticipate their path. the less cropping the better for the final image quality.
in the long run, the longer focal lengths will be best, and the Nikkor models should give sharper results than off brands (at a significant cost). but that doesn't mean that's where he has to start. The bigma or the nikon 80-400 might be more affordable beginnings. However, I'm not sure how fast the autofocus is on these lenses (I shoot Canon and the 100-400 does not autofocus nearly as fast as the 500). Fast autofocus for a bird in flight is key (and don't even think about trying manual focus on a moving subject!).
a tripod is certainly important for these long focal lengths, however, if you're shooting mostly raptors, you might be better off (and cheaper) with some sort of window mount to shoot from the window of your vehicle--raptors are generally much more tolerant of being approached by a car than by a human with a tripod and long lens.
There's nothing better than a brilliant flight shot of a raptor, but they are generally the result of an incredible amount of practice and time in the field. You might want to take a look at Ron Dudley's gallery on this site, he's among the best.
Hope this is helpful.
I started off with the Nikkor 70-300mm with VR and then graduated to the Nikkor 80-400mm, I used those two all the time in Florida. With the 80-400mm VR I felt I always had to photograph in good light to get sharp flight/action images because it is a little slow. I've since gone on to the Nikkor 200-400mm VR (usally with a TC)and I love it. Almost all of my Florida images were taken handheld. My Utah images most of them were taken using my noodle from a vehicle.
Starting with something less expensive will give your Dad an idea of the challenges of bird photography flight images because it isn't for everyone.
If your dad wants to get really good images of birds in flight without breaking the bank I would recommend either the Nikon 300mm F4 and pair it with the 1.4x teleconverter or the Sigma 50-500 or 150-500 OS lenses. I have been using the Sigma 150-500 lens some lately with the Nikon D7000. It's a pretty good combination for birds in flight. The biggest disadvantage of this lens is it's not very sharp unless you stop down to F8 or so. This lens autofocuses faster than the Nikon 80-400 or the 70-300. My lens is very sharp but I have heard there is some variability in these Sigma lenses and some have had to send theirs back to Sigma to have them adjusted. The 300F4 is sharp wide open so you don't have to worry about stopping down, it's sharper than those smaller Nikon zooms (70-300, 80-400) and acquires autofocus faster. You lose some reach and flexibility compared to the Sigma zoom but with teleconverters you can get the reach back.
For those Canon shooters who want to get excellent bird in flight shots without breaking the bank look first at the Canon 400F5.6 and the Canon 300F4 to get excellent image quality without breaking the bank. These lenses rival the big lenses in image quality but don't have as much length so you are going to have to crop your images more unless you are close. The Sigma zooms listed above are also an option for Canon shooters. An additional advantage of all the lenses that I have listed is that they are lightweight enough for most people to handhold easily enough. I almost always shoot my bird in flight shots handheld. Many pros use these lenses when they are doing handheld bird in flight shots in addition to using a big 500 or 600F4 on a tripod.
All of the lenses listed here cost between $1,000 and $1,700 and can take excellent images. If your dad really gets really serious about bird photography after using one of these lenses for some time, then he could consider buying the really big expensive glass (500, 600F4) (200-400 zoom) but most people are going to have to use those on a tripod.
Ok that covers gear until later, for those who commented on technique---THANKS!!!! We'll get to working on it and let you know how it goes.
http://www.onthewingphotography.com/wings/2011/02/08/so-ya-think-ya-want-to-be-a-bird-photographer/