Posted by Jack Garrett on July 7, 2012 at 10:22 AM
So I'm practicing with this foci stacking stuff and need to confirm a couple things.
In Chip Phillips tutorial, he shoots like this:
lets say it's a five shot stack...he shoots three for the closest objects using a higher ISO and more open f-stop ISO/500--f-stop/f8 or f/11 in order to achieve about 1/40 sec or better to freeze motion. He focuses on the closest subject first and then goes out in increments....do you visually focus or just turn the focus ring?
Then without moving anything, he shoots the last 2 images at ISO/100--f/22 to get the sky exposed properly and to reduce noise in the sky areas.
He then blends the first 3 closest objects in helicon for the foreground and the last 2 in helicon for the sky....then finally blends the whole thing in PS. Also would you use manual settings vs Av on the camera?
Would that be the proper way to do a focus stack and blend or would you do something else?
I'm looking for something simple and easy to understand that will produce good results and Chip's sounds reasonable. Thanks.
With the image I just posted, I used Live View with the DOF preview button depressed to visually confirm proper focus.
I used ISO 800, 1/40 sec. & f8.
There are times when I can't use Live View, so turning the focus ring has worked well, too. Just gotta be sure that the subject closest to the lens is in proper focus to start.
Either Manual or Aperture Priority works. I would adjust the shutter speed rather than use f22, but that's a personal choice.
Why two images for a sky exposure? Seems to me that things would be much less complicated just using one image for the sky.
Otherwise, your technique looks pretty good to me. Best of luck and light out there!
Posted by Jack Garrett on July 7, 2012 at 11:25 AM
John, I think he shot 2 images to be sure he had right exposure but used one for the final image...sorry. Do you think the higher ISO...800 could produce noise in the foreground? I'm using the 5d MkII. I was playing around the other night at Mayflower gulch and was using ISO/640 and it seemed to look ok. I haven't downloaded the trial helicon yet since I was waiting until just before I leave next week for Ouray. By the way, do you think I'll still get some good flower ops at YBB and American Basin next Sat-Mon?
Oh yeah, one further question which I've never understood. On the focus ring, you have the infinity mark...the little figure 8 thing and then a line coming back from it a little bit. I've always heard that you should not go all the way the the figure 8.. but just before it...is that right?
2.8 4.5 8.0 |______8 Best diagram I can make...lol
Noise at ISO 800 with the 5DII is really a non-issue, especially in areas with detail and not skies. Far better than having wind shaken flowers, to be sure!
I'm afraid that American Basin will be well past it's prime next weekend per Jason's recent report in the Wildflower thread. I suspect that YBB will be the same after Doug's report a few days ago. Things have just been extraordinarily early this year.
I learned the hard way when focusing on stars that the line coming from the infinity symbol does indeed mark 'infinity' and not the symbol itself.
I attempted focus stacking with flowers and it didn't work because the flowers moved between the shots and the flowers/stems didn't line up properly from one stack to another. I used Photoshop. Perhaps Helicon focus does a better job?
As for infinity, the line is supposed to mark infinity, but I wouldn't rely on that. I'd focus in Live View or use autofocus, as it doesn't always line up to the line on all my lenses.
Chip's process is rather involved. Far too complex for my feeble brain.
OK, you can shoot f/22 and ISO 100 just for a smooth sky.
But seriously, if the exposure is correct, you should be able to eliminate any noise with some selective noise reduction in the sky, if it's even an issue. Why add extra images and processing when you don't need them?
I stack all the images in Helicon on one pass.
Exposure blends have been rarely needed with the new LR4 and ACR Highlight & Shadow adjustments.
I'd avoid really high dynamic range situations until you are comfortable with the basics of focus stacking.
If you have wind blowing the flowers in your foreground, there is NO software that will allow you to stack them.
For some compositions you may be able to get away with stacking just 2 shots.
Take one at f/16 to freeze action in the foreground and one shot at f/16 for the background.
Most likely an additional shot for the middle ground is not worth the effort in trying to blend, life is too short.
The two shots may leave you with a little transition area that is not in optimum focus, but it's often acceptable and not noticed.
I set everything on manual for a stack sequence - single f-stop (f/8 or f/11), shutter speed, ISO, and manual focus.
For insurance, I repeat the stack set if there is possible movement, or need to exposure bracket.
Don't guess on the infinity line. Confirm it for each lens.
Regarding focusing technique, as John said, make certain the nearest object is in focus.
From there just turning the focus ring works fine, and you can double check with Live View to make certain that everything of interest in the foreground has one shot is focus.
At first, you may take more shots than needed, but you will learn quickly when you turn on the mask in Helicon to show you which parts of each image are being used in the stack.
Have fun and keep it simple, especially when you are learning.
Kane, I originally just did auto-blend, but I just tried auto-align, then auto-blend and it came pretty close to creating a seamless composition. I think I could get it looking good with some manual work (but won't bother since it's not a very good shot...just a test image). But it does seem that you can do this with wind-blown flowers if you put in a little work. It might be easier, though, to do two at f16, then auto-align, then do a manual mask for the upper and lower parts of the image, as Bill suggested. I also tried this with Helicon Focus and it doesn't seem much better...maybe worse for this shot...so I think I'll just stick with PS.
My method was to take 5 shots at around f10, from near focus to far. I guess I can see using f22 on the sky, since you don't need the extra sharpness there. Perhaps Chip did this to make the blending easier, but I haven't tried this myself.
Jack, if you are downloading trial versions, I'd also download Zerene stacker. I absolutely love it. It aligns much better than helicon and allows you to paint parts from certain exposures. It also allows you to choose what you find most important as far as focus (for me this is a big deal when dealing with blurred bg effects that I want to keep). You get a full 30 day trial, so I think it would be worth checking out!
I move the focus ring since I am dealing with millimeters of focus and my eyeballs aren't as precise.
Jack, I agree with Anne that you should also check out the trial version of Zerene Stacker. It seems to be very popular with macro photographers. Note the two companies have very different purchase options - lifetime updates vs. the typical upgrade costs.
The pro version of Helicon also allows you to paint from any image in the stack, so there is no difference there.
Posted by Jim Casteel on July 11, 2012 at 10:06 AM
Hey Jack.... I just watched an awesome video on focus stacking. Looks like CS5 and newer have all this figured out for us!
Discussion
10 repliesIn Chip Phillips tutorial, he shoots like this:
lets say it's a five shot stack...he shoots three for the closest objects using a higher ISO and more open f-stop ISO/500--f-stop/f8 or f/11 in order to achieve about 1/40 sec or better to freeze motion. He focuses on the closest subject first and then goes out in increments....do you visually focus or just turn the focus ring?
Then without moving anything, he shoots the last 2 images at ISO/100--f/22 to get the sky exposed properly and to reduce noise in the sky areas.
He then blends the first 3 closest objects in helicon for the foreground and the last 2 in helicon for the sky....then finally blends the whole thing in PS. Also would you use manual settings vs Av on the camera?
Would that be the proper way to do a focus stack and blend or would you do something else?
I'm looking for something simple and easy to understand that will produce good results and Chip's sounds reasonable. Thanks.
I used ISO 800, 1/40 sec. & f8.
There are times when I can't use Live View, so turning the focus ring has worked well, too. Just gotta be sure that the subject closest to the lens is in proper focus to start.
Either Manual or Aperture Priority works. I would adjust the shutter speed rather than use f22, but that's a personal choice.
Why two images for a sky exposure? Seems to me that things would be much less complicated just using one image for the sky.
Otherwise, your technique looks pretty good to me. Best of luck and light out there!
Oh yeah, one further question which I've never understood. On the focus ring, you have the infinity mark...the little figure 8 thing and then a line coming back from it a little bit. I've always heard that you should not go all the way the the figure 8.. but just before it...is that right?
2.8 4.5 8.0 |______8 Best diagram I can make...lol
I'm afraid that American Basin will be well past it's prime next weekend per Jason's recent report in the Wildflower thread. I suspect that YBB will be the same after Doug's report a few days ago. Things have just been extraordinarily early this year.
I learned the hard way when focusing on stars that the line coming from the infinity symbol does indeed mark 'infinity' and not the symbol itself.
As for infinity, the line is supposed to mark infinity, but I wouldn't rely on that. I'd focus in Live View or use autofocus, as it doesn't always line up to the line on all my lenses.
OK, you can shoot f/22 and ISO 100 just for a smooth sky.
But seriously, if the exposure is correct, you should be able to eliminate any noise with some selective noise reduction in the sky, if it's even an issue. Why add extra images and processing when you don't need them?
I stack all the images in Helicon on one pass.
Exposure blends have been rarely needed with the new LR4 and ACR Highlight & Shadow adjustments.
I'd avoid really high dynamic range situations until you are comfortable with the basics of focus stacking.
If you have wind blowing the flowers in your foreground, there is NO software that will allow you to stack them.
For some compositions you may be able to get away with stacking just 2 shots.
Take one at f/16 to freeze action in the foreground and one shot at f/16 for the background.
Most likely an additional shot for the middle ground is not worth the effort in trying to blend, life is too short.
The two shots may leave you with a little transition area that is not in optimum focus, but it's often acceptable and not noticed.
I set everything on manual for a stack sequence - single f-stop (f/8 or f/11), shutter speed, ISO, and manual focus.
For insurance, I repeat the stack set if there is possible movement, or need to exposure bracket.
Don't guess on the infinity line. Confirm it for each lens.
Regarding focusing technique, as John said, make certain the nearest object is in focus.
From there just turning the focus ring works fine, and you can double check with Live View to make certain that everything of interest in the foreground has one shot is focus.
At first, you may take more shots than needed, but you will learn quickly when you turn on the mask in Helicon to show you which parts of each image are being used in the stack.
Have fun and keep it simple, especially when you are learning.
My method was to take 5 shots at around f10, from near focus to far. I guess I can see using f22 on the sky, since you don't need the extra sharpness there. Perhaps Chip did this to make the blending easier, but I haven't tried this myself.
I move the focus ring since I am dealing with millimeters of focus and my eyeballs aren't as precise.
The pro version of Helicon also allows you to paint from any image in the stack, so there is no difference there.
http://vimeo.com/44853675