I called another photog an a**hole

I'm pretty new to this world, so please tell me if I was out of line. I came to photography from my love of outdoors, particularly wilderness. These places, to me, deserve love and respect and are not Disneyland or to be bent to our whims. So here's the story. Schwabacher's landing pre-sunrise. Smoky, smudgy sky -- not going to be great photos. I'd decided that I wanted as much of the curve of the river in my frame as possible, so set up not just at the parking lot, but on top of my FJ. Then a group of Chinese photographers & non-photographers arrived & the photogs set up by a curve at the river. Then a truck with CA plates arrived & he also set up by the river. About 10 minutes before the first light would hit the very top of the Grand, the CA photog starts throwing rocks at ducks in the river. Taking their cue from him, the Chinese photogs then start throwing rocks at the ducks, too. Oh, great, I think. Now these Chinese guys will tell their friends & it'll spread all over China (or Taiwan or Hong Kong, wherever they're from & wherever their social media goes)that it's OK to harass wildlife in the US, particularly in the National Parks. A little while later the photog from CA starts throwing rocks again. This time I yell at him to quit throwing rocks. He ignores me. I yell at him to leave the ducks alone, that it's NATURE photography. Keeps throwing rocks. So that's when I called him an a**hole. That got his attention. He whines that they're wrecking the reflection. I didn't bother pointing out that throwing rocks into the water also ruins the reflection. Or that there wasn't any light on the Tetons yet. I repeated that it's NATURE photography, that they're ducks, ducks swim & they're swimming away. The ducks swam away, he quit throwing rocks and the wildfire smoke kept the Tetons veiled. Hopefully, the Chinese photogs won't think that it OK to do things like that. It made me think of what Tom Phillips told me about when tourists were allowed to go anywhere in Monument Valley. Photogs would chase the livestock (horses, cows, donkeys, etc) to get them in our out of their frames as they wished. And tourists would walk into hogans and take "souvenirs". That's a bit of a digression, sorry. But do tell me if I over-reacted.

I may be wrong but I think if the Forest Service had seen that, he would have been unpolitiely escorted from the area. My choice of words may have been different but they would have conveyed the same meaning to the photog. Nature is Nature and that river is the ducks home. Maybe we should find out where this guy lives and throw rocks at his home..

I won't say that you over reacted, I think you were right to say something. But, we live in a world where ANYONE thinks they can do ANYTHING at ANYTIME a thought pops into their head. There is no sense of propriety or rational thought that kicks in and tells them that what they do might not sit well with others. They are, however, expert at turning it around so that YOU are the one that is the a**hole for spoiling their fun and "enjoyment" of the moment.

You could have taken a picture of him throwing rocks and then tell him if he does it again that you would take the picture and turn it over to the division of wildlife. They take harassment of wildlife very serious. Or, you could have thrown rocks at him and tell him he's ruining the image.

Pam just nailed it with her observations. As far as I'm concerned, you were not out of line.
In fact, I would have given you a round of applause!

I applaud you for speaking up, Monika. I don't think you were out of line or that you overreacted at all. People like him piss me off and I lack that filter that prevents me from speaking my mind, even when I shouldn't. I likely would have done the same thing as you, if not with a more aggressive demeanor. Thank you for calling out the a-hole, even if your efforts weren't met with success. People like him are typically narcissistic and nothing short of a ranger issuing him a citation would have gotten his attention.

I can understand your frustration but would be very careful these days at calling people A**holes etc. There's a very angry element out there today that wouldn't hesitate to harm you. Several years ago I watched two people yelling at a guy photographing a Moose telling him he was violating the park regulations, guess where the Tetons. He told them to shut up and one of the pair continued to shout at him. He then took off after them and caught up with them at their vehicle and started to pound on the vehicle as they took off. I can cite several of these incidents that I have seen over the years that have resulted in smashed equipment and physical harm. Its not worth an image to bring harm on yourself. Take a picture and turn them into the Park Rangers if you see a violation or problem.

There is a race of people out there I call the Oblivions. They seem to be completely oblivious to everyone and everything around them. You've seen them...the ones that stop their cart in the MIDDLE of the aisle at the grocery store...the ones that walk 4 abreast on a sidewalk just wide enough for 4 people. Like Bret, "Hey a**hole" would have been the first words out of my mouth. As I get older I seem to have no issue pointing out their stupid behavior. In fact, more and more it seems to be one of the great pleasures of my life. In this case, ya done good.

I would have thrown rocks at the a-hole and explained that I was just trying to get him out of my frame...

Seriously, as Don stated, be careful. The fact that they're doing what they're doing is evidence that they're not particularly sensible. If they don't respond to a polite but stern warning, they're not going to respond to hostility and you only put yourself at risk even if you are justified.

My choice of words wouldn't have been different, but my choice of actions would have been.

Good for you for speaking up. I've been in similar situations and try to remain calm, but sometimes these people just go too far. When I photographed birds all the time, there would be photographers tossing sticks and stones trying to get a bird to take off and get flight shots. I've had my moments of lashing out on people, especially when I went to Yellowstone for the first time. Some people just don't have respect for others in these parks. It's not only harassing wildlife, but there are people who are blatantly walking into photogs frames for their own sick pleasure. While on second beach in Olympic national park last week, there were a group of about 20 photographers lined up shooting the arch at sunset while three people (about my age) just wandered into the middle of the beach and just stood there talking. I'm fortunate to be on the large size, and god forbid anybody tries to harass me for speaking out I will make sure they regret it (in the proper manner if possible). I am a very calm and patient person, but sometimes I just let it all out.

Thanks for all your input. I certainly never considered fearing for my own safety. Normally I just keep quiet & imagine all the things I would have loved to say, but the thing that pushed me over the edge was this: The Jackson Chamber of Commerce had just done this big promotion for their area to China. After this & the imagined spreading of the word that Wyoming is the wild west & one can do anything there, including throwing rocks at animals, the next wave of Chinese tourists would think they could do just that. I couldn't let that pass. But taking their picture (or video) is a good idea & I will keep that in mind.

I like that you stood up for the ducks!

I think calling an a**hole an a**hole is ENTIRELY appropriate.
Bill called people like this moron "Oblivious" but I think he's being kind. In reality, they're "selfish". They don't care who's way they're in, who's view they're obstructing, who's time they're wasting, all they know is that whatever they're doing is MORE important than what you're doing (regardless of what you or they are doing).
Bravo to you for standing up, not just for the ducks, but for yourself!
And yes, PLEASE be careful. Some of these morons are stupid enough to be dangerous. Unfortunately, not dangerous just to themselves.

A-hole is where I would have started, it would have ended with me dismounting the vehicle and asking more sternly at a much closer distance -- and I'm a big guy. Hell, I even yell at people that feed the chipmunks.

Honestly, I would just thrown rocks at the photogs. Tell'em the ducks are friends of mine!

I am going to take a different point of view here. Was what they were doing cool? No it wasn't. However, name calling is never justifiable. It's perfectly human to think it -or murmur it under your breath. It's another thing altogether and frankly not OK to call someone a name - especially directing profanity at a stranger. The guy obviously heard you the first time and apparently didn't really care what you think...so the name calling really didn't change the situation. Like Don said - it could be dangerous and then it's just going to stress you out even more.

Here's the thing - if you go to a place as famous as Schwabacher's - you can absolutely expect there is going to be be someone there who is rude that is going to rub you the wrong way. Deal with it maturely or find some place else to shoot that doesn't involve at least 50 photographers.

In conclusion, I will say there is a difference between throwing rocks near the ducks to scare them off or maliciously trying to hit the ducks with rocks. If it was the later or you were actually trying to photograph the ducks, I think it was justifiable to say something, but say it only once and try to avoid any confrontational language for your own personal welfare.

Hmmm, I don't know what it is with Grand Teton NP and people throwing rocks at ducks. I was there last fall and there was a guy yelling at (and throwing rocks at) some ducks at Oxbow one morning. A couple days later, the same thing happened at Maroon Lake. I didn't say anything, I didn't feel the need to point out the irony of the situations but I don't think you over-reacted. There is this weird "custom" where if someone is acting in that way, then the best thing is to not say anything and I don't understand it. That's not how I was raised.

Michael Greene: That is some weak soup indeed.

Michael Greene,
I was hoping to spur some lively debate with the question. While the rock thrower was probably not trying to hit the ducks, there is no guarantee than he wouldn't accidentally hit one. I worked with someone who was "gently rolling a rock towards a dog" and knocked it off the curb. And he did teach by example, the foreign visitors that it was OK to do so. Their rocks hit with a bigger splash, indicating that they were throwing more aggressively. And there weren't 50 photographers. There were 4, half of whom were taught that harassing wildlife has no repercussions other than maybe somebody yelllng at them. Would you prefer that we all condone such behavior by silence? Granted, I could have walked down, tapped him on the shoulder & asked him to stop, but then I would also have to explain the same to the Chinese & I can probably only remember 3 or 4 words of Mandarin.

Monika,

Honestly, I personally don't think it was that big of a deal. And silence does not necessarily mean you were "condoning" their actions. Shouting an obscenity at someone because you don't agree with their behavior is simply stooping to their level. And quite frankly, I doubt anyone learned any learned by you doing it. Let me ask you a question: next time you are driving down the highway and someone dumps a wad trash out their window - are you going to start honking your horn, flashing lights, and pull up beside them and flick them the bird?

You can also take a pic of their license plate, then a pic of them. That usually works.

I had an interesting conversation with the Monticello, Utah BLM this spring while renewing my commercial license. The lady said to me at one point, and this is a quote, "The trouble with you photographers is that you take all these great pictures around here and spread them all over the internet and then everyone wants to come here!". Later in the conversation she also pointed out that photographers will do anything to get their picture... enter a ruin (illegal), climb over barriers (illegal) ... and... she probably meant to include throwing rocks at ducks. For the people here who see no problem with this I suggest you do it in front of a ranger and see how it goes.

Bob, while I certainly do not condone any photographer doing anything illegal to get a photograph, this quote from her caused me to lose a lot of respect for her: "The trouble with you photographers is that you take all these great pictures around here and spread them all over the internet and then everyone wants to come here!". Maybe she forgets that her job depends on "everyone" wanting to come out? If she said it in jest, then so be it, but that wasn't made clear in your post.
I also don't appreciate her casting all photographers into the same (low) class as those who violate the law.

Bob Maynard, I think maybe you left out "lighting fires under arches"? I ran into Jon Fuller last winter & he mentioned that Aztec Ruin had been knocked down, probably by somebody crawling though a window/door with a backpack on.

My hat's off to you Monika!

Let me ask you a question: next time you are driving down the highway and someone dumps a wad trash out their window - are you going to start honking your horn, flashing lights, and pull up beside them and flick them the bird?

No, id incinerate them with the napalm i keep for such occasions.