I don't have the answer to your question, but I wanted you to know that I am looking forward to answers, perhaps, from people with more experience. I have used the Shadow/Highllight function, but it seems very "mysterious" to me . . . in other words I have gotten good results but I got those good results using some default numbers from pdf tutorial on the Radiant Vista Site: www.radiantvista.com/pdf_tutorials -- the pdf is entitled "The Magic of Shadow Highlight." But as I said, I don't really understand what I am doing and, as you said, when to use curves and when to use shadow/highlight.
I would suggest doing it first thing if you feel it's necessary. In general you want to apply the most destructive and/or global adjustments early in the process and get more granular/selective as you go along.
This tool sounded good when it came out, but I've never successfully used it on a print I've made. The fact that it is applied to an image layer makes is a lot less desirable than making changes to an adjustment layer. An adjustment layer can be infinitely tweaked and an image layer is written in stone. I just prefer the flexibility of adjustment layers more.
I agree with Tony. After several attempts, I decided not to use it myself. There's a number of tools out there to create tone masks that allow much better control.
I agree about its destructive nature, but have found uses for it- especially for quick and dirty work such as prep of editorial images. It's also proved very handy for strongly backlit scenes where the action is more critical than the other features of an image. Along the lines of others' points for prints, I've only been truly happy with it for landscapes when I apply it on a duplicate layer which I then use as a mask, erasing the portions I don't want to affect while also using the Opacity slider on the layers palatte to fine tune the effect.
An example of it's use in a strongly backlit editorial image can be found here on the TPN site. The subjects were simply too far away for me to use fill flash, yet their faces were deeply shadowed in the prevailing lighting.
If you work your photos in the LAB color space then bring up the L channel and use the Shadow and Highlight tool three. It'll be much less destructive in the L. Also, make a copy of your background layer and use the tool on that layer, even go so far to name that layer "Shadow and Highlight". That way, if you find you don't like the result you can simply delete the layer.
In Tim Grey's DDQ today, he responded to a question about the S/H tool and his preference for using Curves instead. Useful insights. Here's the question and his answer:
I find the shadow-highlight tool extremely useful. You have said that the same effects can be achieved using curves, but Iíd appreciate your explaining how to do that. I have not been as successful in rescuing highlight detail using curves as with the shadow-highlight tool.
Also interesting is that if I adjust levels before applying the tool to so that the sliders are on each of the histogram, after applying the shadow-highlight tool the sliders show that some of the curve is cut off of each end. Please help me understand what is happening with this tool.
The Shadow/Highlight tool in Photoshop is indeed very useful. My biggest problem with it is that it isn't available as an adjustment layer, so you need to create a duplicate of your Background layer before applying it (because I know you would never apply such an adjustment directly to the original pixel values in your images, and if you would you need to read my book Photoshop CS2 Workflow!). This doubles the file size relative to its original size, which is best avoided whenever possible. It also means you don't have all the other benefits of adjustment layers, such as the ability to refine the adjustments with no penalty in terms of image quality.
As a result, for situations where I might otherwise use a Shadow/Highlight adjustment I'll instead use a Curves adjustment layer. Now, right off the bat let me tell you that Curves is by no means an easy or user-friendly tool. So expect that it will take some time to get comfortable with it. But once you get to that point you can most certainly reproduce the tonal effects of the Shadow/Highlight tool, and actually exert a bit more control over the process.
To get started, create a new Curves adjustment layer by clicking the Add Adjustment Layer button (the one with the half black/half white circle on it) at the bottom of the Layers palette and select Curves from the popup list. This will create the new Curves adjustment layer and bring up the Curves dialog box.
Again, Curves is fairly complicated, so I'll provide the basics of working with it for this purpose here. I cover Curves in more detail in Photoshop CS2 Workflow. To get started, let's make sure you have the Curves dialog box configured the same way I prefer to work. I prefer to have the dialog box as big as possible so it is easier to work with. The only time I don't is when I'm working on a smaller display (such as on a laptop) and don't want to block too much of the image. To toggle the size of the dialog box, click the button at the bottom-right corner of the Curves dialog box, leaving it set to the larger size.
The next setting I prefer is to have the background grid set to 10% rather than 25% increments. This doesn't have any effect on the actual behavior of Curves, but it does make it a bit easier to have a sense of the fine-tuning adjustments you want to make. To toggle this setting hold the Alt/Option key and click on the grid. Each click will swap between the two settings.
Finally, I prefer to have white be represented at the top and right of the gradients shown alongside the grid. This causes any upward movement of the curve to cause a lightening of the image, and I find that for photographers it tends to make more sense that "more" (moving the control up) means more light and therefore a lightening of the image. You can switch between the two options by clicking on the gradient along the bottom of the grid in the dialog box.
Note, by the way, that there is a bug in Photoshop that will sometimes cause the gradients to be out of sync with each other, so that the same color doesn't appear on both gradients at the bottom-left corner of the grid. In my experience this can be fixed by toggling the dialog box size again with the button in the bottom-right corner of the dialog box and then swapping the gradients again as needed. Hopefully Adobe will fix this in the next update.
Once you have the dialog box configured, you're ready to make the adjustments. Again, I'll keep these relatively simple to give you a sense of the process, and as you get more comfortable with Curves you'll find that it gets easier to exercise tremendous control over your images.
The basic process of the Shadow/Highlight adjustment involves darkening highlights, brightening shadows, and adjusting contrast for mid-tones to compensate. In curves, that means "pulling down" part of the curve near the top-right (since that's where we have the white value) and "pushing up" part of the curve near the bottom-left (since that's where we have the black value). In some extreme cases it may be necessary to adjust the end points of the curve so there isn't a true white or true black in the image, but that shouldn't be necessary in most cases. Instead, simply click on the line that runs from bottom-left to top-right in the grid and move it around to adjust the image. So for the highlights, for example, you might set a point 10% or 20% in from the white endpoint and drag it downward to darken the highlights in the image. Similarly, you can click to add an anchor point around 10% or 20% in from the black endpoint at the bottom-left of the grid and drag it upward.
The key thing to remember with these adjustments is that you probably don't need to make a very strong adjustment to get the desired result. Work on making very subtle adjustments with the anchor points you add along the curve. Once you've darkened the highlights and brightened the shadows, you'll notice that the overall contrast of the image has gone down, perhaps considerably. To help compensate for this, create additional anchor points along the center range of the curve that you didn't adjust. For example, if you placed points 20% in from the ends, you might add additional anchor points around 30% or so in. Adjust the position of these anchor points to make the center portion of the curve steeper. That will generally call for dragging the top anchor point you just created to the left, and the bottom anchor point you just created right. Doing so will increase contrast for the midtone range in the image, without sacrificing the adjustments you made to the shadows and highlights.
This covers only the basic method of working with Curves to reproduce the effect you could otherwise get with Shadow/Highlight, and it is by no means a complete exploration of everything that is possible with Curves. However, it should get you started down the path of getting the most results possible with Curves until (I hope) Shadow/Highlight is available as an adjustment layer.
Discussion
8 repliesI'm wondering when is the best time to use the s/h tool in CS2?
After my conversion from RAW should I do any s/h work before levels/curves or after these (or maybe instead of curves)?
Thanks for any pointers.
I don't have the answer to your question, but I wanted you to know that I am looking forward to answers, perhaps, from people with more experience. I have used the Shadow/Highllight function, but it seems very "mysterious" to me . . . in other words I have gotten good results but I got those good results using some default numbers from pdf tutorial on the Radiant Vista Site: www.radiantvista.com/pdf_tutorials -- the pdf is entitled "The Magic of Shadow Highlight." But as I said, I don't really understand what I am doing and, as you said, when to use curves and when to use shadow/highlight.
Regards,
Catherine
Guy
Guy
An example of it's use in a strongly backlit editorial image can be found here on the TPN site. The subjects were simply too far away for me to use fill flash, yet their faces were deeply shadowed in the prevailing lighting.
I find the shadow-highlight tool extremely useful. You have said that the same effects can be achieved using curves, but Iíd appreciate your explaining how to do that. I have not been as successful in rescuing highlight detail using curves as with the shadow-highlight tool.
Also interesting is that if I adjust levels before applying the tool to so that the sliders are on each of the histogram, after applying the shadow-highlight tool the sliders show that some of the curve is cut off of each end. Please help me understand what is happening with this tool.
The Shadow/Highlight tool in Photoshop is indeed very useful. My biggest problem with it is that it isn't available as an adjustment layer, so you need to create a duplicate of your Background layer before applying it (because I know you would never apply such an adjustment directly to the original pixel values in your images, and if you would you need to read my book Photoshop CS2 Workflow!). This doubles the file size relative to its original size, which is best avoided whenever possible. It also means you don't have all the other benefits of adjustment layers, such as the ability to refine the adjustments with no penalty in terms of image quality.
As a result, for situations where I might otherwise use a Shadow/Highlight adjustment I'll instead use a Curves adjustment layer. Now, right off the bat let me tell you that Curves is by no means an easy or user-friendly tool. So expect that it will take some time to get comfortable with it. But once you get to that point you can most certainly reproduce the tonal effects of the Shadow/Highlight tool, and actually exert a bit more control over the process.
To get started, create a new Curves adjustment layer by clicking the Add Adjustment Layer button (the one with the half black/half white circle on it) at the bottom of the Layers palette and select Curves from the popup list. This will create the new Curves adjustment layer and bring up the Curves dialog box.
Again, Curves is fairly complicated, so I'll provide the basics of working with it for this purpose here. I cover Curves in more detail in Photoshop CS2 Workflow. To get started, let's make sure you have the Curves dialog box configured the same way I prefer to work. I prefer to have the dialog box as big as possible so it is easier to work with. The only time I don't is when I'm working on a smaller display (such as on a laptop) and don't want to block too much of the image. To toggle the size of the dialog box, click the button at the bottom-right corner of the Curves dialog box, leaving it set to the larger size.
The next setting I prefer is to have the background grid set to 10% rather than 25% increments. This doesn't have any effect on the actual behavior of Curves, but it does make it a bit easier to have a sense of the fine-tuning adjustments you want to make. To toggle this setting hold the Alt/Option key and click on the grid. Each click will swap between the two settings.
Finally, I prefer to have white be represented at the top and right of the gradients shown alongside the grid. This causes any upward movement of the curve to cause a lightening of the image, and I find that for photographers it tends to make more sense that "more" (moving the control up) means more light and therefore a lightening of the image. You can switch between the two options by clicking on the gradient along the bottom of the grid in the dialog box.
Note, by the way, that there is a bug in Photoshop that will sometimes cause the gradients to be out of sync with each other, so that the same color doesn't appear on both gradients at the bottom-left corner of the grid. In my experience this can be fixed by toggling the dialog box size again with the button in the bottom-right corner of the dialog box and then swapping the gradients again as needed. Hopefully Adobe will fix this in the next update.
Once you have the dialog box configured, you're ready to make the adjustments. Again, I'll keep these relatively simple to give you a sense of the process, and as you get more comfortable with Curves you'll find that it gets easier to exercise tremendous control over your images.
The basic process of the Shadow/Highlight adjustment involves darkening highlights, brightening shadows, and adjusting contrast for mid-tones to compensate. In curves, that means "pulling down" part of the curve near the top-right (since that's where we have the white value) and "pushing up" part of the curve near the bottom-left (since that's where we have the black value). In some extreme cases it may be necessary to adjust the end points of the curve so there isn't a true white or true black in the image, but that shouldn't be necessary in most cases. Instead, simply click on the line that runs from bottom-left to top-right in the grid and move it around to adjust the image. So for the highlights, for example, you might set a point 10% or 20% in from the white endpoint and drag it downward to darken the highlights in the image. Similarly, you can click to add an anchor point around 10% or 20% in from the black endpoint at the bottom-left of the grid and drag it upward.
The key thing to remember with these adjustments is that you probably don't need to make a very strong adjustment to get the desired result. Work on making very subtle adjustments with the anchor points you add along the curve. Once you've darkened the highlights and brightened the shadows, you'll notice that the overall contrast of the image has gone down, perhaps considerably. To help compensate for this, create additional anchor points along the center range of the curve that you didn't adjust. For example, if you placed points 20% in from the ends, you might add additional anchor points around 30% or so in. Adjust the position of these anchor points to make the center portion of the curve steeper. That will generally call for dragging the top anchor point you just created to the left, and the bottom anchor point you just created right. Doing so will increase contrast for the midtone range in the image, without sacrificing the adjustments you made to the shadows and highlights.
This covers only the basic method of working with Curves to reproduce the effect you could otherwise get with Shadow/Highlight, and it is by no means a complete exploration of everything that is possible with Curves. However, it should get you started down the path of getting the most results possible with Curves until (I hope) Shadow/Highlight is available as an adjustment layer.