Nature Photographers Network
This is the preserved archive of the original Nature Photographers Network. The community continues at naturephotographers.network.

What should I do?

Discussion

15 replies
Posted by Cristina Strudthof on October 15, 2012 at 10:52 PM
I recently became aware that some of my images have been taken from NPN and used as part of a assignment for a photography class at a community college in New York. I guess it was part of this class that the students pick a photographer and select a certain number of images of that photographers to compare to their own photos and then also provide explanations why those pictures were selected and so on. As a result, my pictures were taken off my NPN Gallery and posted to a blog for the class. Now, granted this student did reference my name under the pictures and I should be somewhat flattered but I was shocked that this type of activity is encouraged by an institution of learning given the sensitive nature of copyright laws and photography. I know the fact that I put the photos on the web automatically made them susceptible to this and we do our best to prevent it but given this is the first time I've experienced anything like this, I'm not sure what to do. I don't want to be rude but also don't want those photos to sit on a blog that will not be updated beyond the purpose of the class thus only allowing them the opportunity to remove the photos on their own (which is not likely to happen). Given all that, should I ask that the professor remove my photos from the blog?
Posted by Hank Pennington on October 15, 2012 at 11:02 PM
I'd drop a letter to the school administration and ZAP the instructor. I bet the class has a whole new assignment next year.
Posted by Max Waugh on October 15, 2012 at 11:07 PM
I honestly think that you should go after the professor (and the school, possibly) for this. Not legally perhaps--though that's within your rights I suppose--but you should definitely take action immediately and contact them.

I'm somewhat shocked that a college professor fails to educate his/her students about how to properly go about this. I have received a (pleasantly) surprising number of requests from students over the years about using images for class projects, all the way down to the middle school level, so obviously there are teachers who have their act together. In this case, if the professor is teaching their students that it's okay to simply grab intellectual content from anywhere when they want, you at least have an opportunity to keep this from being taught to future students.

It's probably a good idea to include the school's administration in your communication though, in case the prof needs a little pressure from above to change their practices. :wink:

By the way, you raise an interesting point about the blog. While I think the bigger issue is the "borrowing without asking," having the photos remain online long after the class is over with is a legitimate concern. If they can't ensure they'll be taken down afterward, asking for immediate removal certainly makes sense.

Max
Posted by Stan Rose on October 15, 2012 at 11:14 PM
I would first contact the prof and see what kind of response you get--as Max mentions the first issue is why the photos were grabbed without your permission or even knowledge first. What kind of response you get might steer your next (if any) course of action.
Posted by Cristina Strudthof on October 15, 2012 at 11:34 PM
Thanks guys...I have drafted an email to the director of the photography program as the professor I need to speak with doesn't have an email listed. We'll see how it goes. Keep ya posted...
Posted by David Bostedo on October 16, 2012 at 12:14 AM
Actually, one thing to keep in mind is that many educational uses are covered by fair use law, and aren't violating any copyright. Whether they are in this case or not (it's hard to say, and IANAL), it's reasonable to think that the professor would think that no laws are being violated.

In any case, given the blog, it's also reasonable to think that he'd make sure that the only postings are assignment related, and removed promptly; or that he'd be willing to remove the photos if you asked him to.
Posted by Cristina Strudthof on October 16, 2012 at 12:37 AM
Didn't know that David so thanks for that. Since it was for an assignment from last semester and the blog doesn't appear to be of any further use to the student I'm just going to ask that the photos be removed and request that they at least ask permission to repost images like that.
Posted by Luke Ormand on October 16, 2012 at 8:04 AM
I'm with David on this one - I would be surprised if any laws were broken. That's not to say the professor should encourage this type of behavior, and no doubt the student should have simply asked you, but I would argue "fair use" especially due to the fact that there is no commercial component to this and your images have been posted into what is basically the public domain
Posted by Cristina Strudthof on October 16, 2012 at 8:31 AM
I guess the only thing I have with this is that once the student's instruction is over do they understand that they can't do similar things on their own blog without asking for permission. Would the professor be explaining to them the limitations of fair use at the same time they are taking advantage of it? I'm going to say not in this particular case since I read the professor's instructions and the topic of fair use was not mentioned. Does that really matter? I don't know, but I do feel more comfortable about all this now having asked you all about it.
Posted by Marylynne Diggs on October 16, 2012 at 11:08 AM
This last point is a good one, Cristina. Since the student is learning how to do things in the real world, the unique copyright context of college needs to be explained. I would still try to contact the prof and suggest that rather than grabbing images off the web, students shuld be instructed to insert links to the photographers' galleries. Once we post something online, it is available for use amd discussion, so it's possession and use of the file, not the use of the mage for doscussion purposes, that poses problems here, corrct? I could post links to my favorite galleries on facebook without asking permission, though permission is the courteous way to do this.
Posted by Gary Crabbe on October 16, 2012 at 2:55 PM
In the US, it's legal for students to do this as part of their class work, and it's covered under the fair use parts of copyright. When students ask me, I usually say fine, good luck, and teach them about the need for proper attribution; aka credit line. I wouldn't spend much of my time or energy worrying about this. If you want to draft a note to the teach asking him 'politely' to make sure kids are informed about copyright laws outside of the classroom, and to teach the kids to credit their sources of material. More info can be dug up here if you're curious: http://www.enlightphoto.com/views/copyright/legal

Cheers, & submitted respectfully IMHO.

Posted by Stan Wojtaszek on October 16, 2012 at 5:26 PM
I think the computer, and internet, has completely desensitized us as to what is right and what is wrong. Theft is become the norm rather than the exception. Talk to people who use cameras and find out how many of them have pirated copies of editing programs. I actually had one photographer complain to me about someone using their image without permission and whine about copyright but freely admitting never paying for a program. Apparently, that's ok, to some

Being within the letter of the law also seems to make things "right." Somehow, we have to get people to recognize the difference between legal and moral. I really don't care if its "legal" to use someone's work. The moral thing to do is to ask permission.

Our laws tend to have a rather high double standard; the list of things we cannot point our lenses at gets longer and longer yet, apparently, the use of those images is a bit of a free-for-all. Help me out here. Does this make sense?
Posted by Brad Mangas on October 16, 2012 at 7:00 PM
Unless you have a specific licensing attached to your photos, they have done nothing illegal or even wrong since attributions was properly credited. I would recommend you refer to the creative commons licensing agreements and make use of them. This spells out exactly what rights you give others. Then you actually have something to go on if your work is misused.
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/
Posted by David Bostedo on October 16, 2012 at 7:11 PM
"Unless you have a specific licensing attached to your photos, they have done nothing illegal or even wrong since attributions was properly credited."

Brad - That's wrong.

In this case, because of fair use for education (which I'm assuming... fair use can be tricky actually), the licensing doesn't matter, and attribution is not even required. They didn't do anything wrong because fair use explicitly allows what they did.

In other cases, for anything that doesn't fall under fair use, you still own the copyright regardless of what you've stated with regard to licenses; And the photos can't be used unless you say they can even if they give you an attribution.
Posted by SandyRichardsBrown on October 17, 2012 at 11:35 AM
It's also possible that the students WERE supposed to get permission from the photographer they chose, but failed to do so - and the instructor failed to verify that they did. .
I agree to write a strong letter and see their response.
Sandy
Posted by Preston Birdwell on October 17, 2012 at 12:41 PM
I think the best way to approach this issue is to pen a letter to the professor. In the letter you should ask what is the policy of the institution regarding the use of intellectual property by students. The school's policy and that of the NY educational code would trump 'fair use'.

If the policies were violated by either the student and/or the instructor, this could have serious consequences. I would approach this in a non-confrontational manner with the professor, solely, at this point. In my opinion, you'll want to build a bridge--not burn one.

--P