Posted by Peter Coskun on February 4, 2013 at 12:32 AM
I've been asked to make a presentation for a local camera club sometime in march basically discussing my work and my approach for capturing my images. They said there would be around 5-10 attendees for the presentation and that they would compensate for my time. Since I am trying to lean more to the business side of photography, I was wondering what the appropriate compensation would be. They were vague on how long the presentation would be, but I would imagine the minimum would be an hour (including some Q&A). I definitely do not want to undercut myself, but I also do not want to come across as greedy. I did a little bit of research on what to bring for the presentation (business cards, slide show, etc) and was also wondering if there was anything else I should know? Any help is greatly appreciated.
Posted by John Reed on February 4, 2013 at 12:15 PM
You need more info! Certainly at least how long the talk. Figure an hourly value for your time and multiply it per the time they require plus whatever else you feel needed for travel and materials. A club where only 5-10 are expected sounds like a very small membership pool so budget is probably not large. Up to you then whether worth it to cut your rate to get the gig or not. I'd say not. Consistent pricing is essential. You may also want to find out do they provide anything for AV - projector? screen? HDTV? Whatever they don't provide, do you have? Figure that in your prep time and costs. Yes, don't forget prep time too. The time you spend putting together a program has value also.
JR
Posted by Nancy de Flon on February 4, 2013 at 12:53 PM
You might want to ask them their usual fee for similar (time- and equipment-wise) presentations. Camera clubs tend to work within a certain budget. Granted it's not a large audience (unless it's in such a location that you can invite your friends and ask them to invite other interested friends), but I do think you should factor in the free publicity you're getting in exchange for your presentation. I would caution against being too exorbitant in your asking fee, only because you don't want to get that kind of reputation when you may be welcoming such gigs in future.
In addition to business cards, if you have any flyers or brochures about your work, be sure to bring those.
I speak, at this point, more as someone who has attended a number of camera club presentations than as an experienced giver of them. But since I do plan to be giving them, I'll be interested in what other folks have to say here.
Posted by Lon Overacker on February 4, 2013 at 1:42 PM
Peter,
I'm a former camera club member, even president for a couple years and held all the other offices too. I stopped going after moving to large format because I no longer had 35mm slides to project! Since leaving the club, I've been asked on couple of occasions to return and judge for them. Most recently I did a presentation, mini workshop about PhotoShop and image processing. I mention this only to provide a little background on my comments.
As far as fees, they should provide a payment, however I would advise that you should not consider this a significant part of the deal. I'd call it more of a "thank you for your time" payment rather than you providing some professional service. I think I was paid $50 or $75, can't remember. $35 for 2 hours of judging. And this is for a club where 30 attendees was common. I'm NOT saying your time or my time isn't of value, but as mentioned these camera clubs certainly can't afford to invite the big names, so they go for local talent. BTW, would be curious to learn how they came upon contacting you? Do you advertise speaking engagements on your website? Do you advertise hourly charges for this service? As Nancy kind of eludes, if this is your first time presenting in front of a group other than leading a workshop or something, considering this as building experience on speaking and presenting; potentially leading to future work and clients. On the other hand, if they only offer you $10, you should be able to politely remind them that wouldn't hardly cover the gas to drive to and from the club.
Here's a few items to think about:
1. get more info as mentioned. Ask what the experience level is of the members. Mostly beginners? If you talk about image blending will it be over their head? Or will they try and tell you how to process images? Know your audience.
2. Ask about the projector. Will you be using your own laptop? If so, it's CRUCIAL that you test the setup. I did not and of course my laptop was not calibrated with the projector and my images looked AWFUL!. I use CS4 on my home PC, but have CS5 loaded on my laptop (work) and was unaware of some of the new features - that someone from the club happily pointed out.....
3. Typically clubs might meet for 3 hours and may have fixed windows where they must finish by a certain time. Be sure to know how much time you'll have.
4. Do you have a print portfolio book? With your small crowd it might serve well to show some prints too, and be a backup if the projector setup doesn't work right for you.
5. Make sure you let them know that it's ok and suggested that they can ask you questions. Nothing worse than a speaker who rambles straight for 2 hours, not stopping for questions.
6. Provide lots of additional info; links to websites, NPN, Tony Kuyper, or others that you have found valuable in your progression as a photographer and image processor.
7. Turn off: "Here is an image I processed where I used my new blending technique.... buy my e-book and discover how I did it." I don't know if you even have books, articles, etc., but just make sure your presentation is complete and genuine. If it's successful, folks will ask you if you have books and then you can tell them you're happy to tell them how to buy them, but don't use your presentation as a direct sales platform.
Just my .02. Have fun and simply use this as an experience to learn and grow as a photographer and now teacher.
Lon
Posted by Peter Coskun on February 4, 2013 at 2:53 PM
Thanks for the tips and suggestions. I am still in contacts with the group trying to plan the event. I was contacted through my Facebook page and someone from the area asked if I could speak. I'll definitely have to ask more questions.
Posted by Richard Ditch on February 4, 2013 at 4:02 PM
My experience is much like Lon's and I will second most of his points. I've been on both sides of this: President or Program Chair for "camera" clubs and Audubon chapters; featured speaker at both. I would expect a payment from any group that asked me to present, but I wouldn't expect them to pay more than $100 and would ok doing it for half that. Some groups will take the speaker (and sometimes even a second guest) out to a local restaurant before the program.
Note that you will never be able to profit on the total amount of work that goes into this: not only is there the time doing the presentation and driving to and from it; there's also substantial time in putting together a quality presentation. You need to decide in advance what your presentation is really going to be about: a collection of images on a specific theme (a place, the seasons, birds, flowers, close ups); field techniques; post processing; cameras and lenses; whatever. Even if you don't build your presentation on any of the last three topics expect questions on any of them and be prepared to answer them.
When you build your presentation have a reason for including every single image you plan to use - if there's not something specific you have to say about a shot it probably has no place in the show.
If its about post processing then be sure you have material that covers the steps involved rather than trying to explain "How I Did It" from a single final image.
Finally, expect to get more personally out of this than the audience. Putting your talk together is a great way to focus your own understanding and interests.
Posted by Lisa Cuchara on February 11, 2013 at 12:50 AM
Correct. Camera clubs have low budgets. Dues are like $25 a month and we have to pay rent for the majority of our income. I have been programs charir" fdor a while. Typically $50-$200 for a typical hour long presentation, the latter people who travel or are well know.
What you can do to generate money.
First of all once a club knows you they are much more likely to sign up for a workshop, shooting event, etc. with you, so advertise what you do with the club, bring brochures if you have them, business cards with your blog and website if you don't. Secondly a lot of our speakers make money by typing a workshop to their presentation. If they are known they will hold a shooting workshop Sunday the day before their program, a shorted post-processing workshop during the day before their program (programs are Monday nights). Even our speakers that travel from out of town we might pay them $300 without a workshop but as long as we get 8 people signed up for their workshop then they do the program for free. Lastly, If you get known within the camera clubs then you might get asked to speak at a bigger event (NECCC, PSA, PPA, etc.).
Posted by Jim Bennett on March 9, 2013 at 12:46 AM
As the current president of a relatively small photo club that only has $10 annual dues, we have no budget for high-priced presenters. As a small token, I've given usually $25 gift cards to presenters that are non-members. Our presenters usually have 60-90 minutes to speak and take questions. Unlike some photographers that look at photo club presentations as a "professional service" with fees to match, I look at them as being offered a opportunity to share some of their knowledge as a "community service". Our presenters can certainly share their business offerings with our club members, but the reality is that they shouldn't expect to make any money that way.
But having said that, I do agree that if someone is asked to put on a dedicated "workshop" that lasts longer and includes detailed handouts, some fee should be charged.
Fortunately, I've never run into a photographer that I've asked to present for our club that expected "professional" rates for their time. Usually, they are flattered that I asked and money isn't an issue.
Posted by Jim Bennett on March 27, 2013 at 11:35 PM
Well Peter, did you end up doing that presentation? If so, how did it go?
Posted by Peter Coskun on April 14, 2013 at 1:14 AM
I did make my presentation today, and it went very well. It was a small group of about 7 attendees which made it a little easier on me. I was compensated very well, more than I expected and got to speak with each attendee personally after the presentation. The only complaint by the group was the photos in my presentation could have been bigger, but the screen which the images were displayed on was not a typical projector, it was a 42in flat screen TV. All in all it was a good experience and will likely do more presentations for this group and perhaps small workshops as well as presentations for other groups that some attendees are recommending me for.
Discussion
9 repliesJR
In addition to business cards, if you have any flyers or brochures about your work, be sure to bring those.
I speak, at this point, more as someone who has attended a number of camera club presentations than as an experienced giver of them. But since I do plan to be giving them, I'll be interested in what other folks have to say here.
I'm a former camera club member, even president for a couple years and held all the other offices too. I stopped going after moving to large format because I no longer had 35mm slides to project! Since leaving the club, I've been asked on couple of occasions to return and judge for them. Most recently I did a presentation, mini workshop about PhotoShop and image processing. I mention this only to provide a little background on my comments.
As far as fees, they should provide a payment, however I would advise that you should not consider this a significant part of the deal. I'd call it more of a "thank you for your time" payment rather than you providing some professional service. I think I was paid $50 or $75, can't remember. $35 for 2 hours of judging. And this is for a club where 30 attendees was common. I'm NOT saying your time or my time isn't of value, but as mentioned these camera clubs certainly can't afford to invite the big names, so they go for local talent. BTW, would be curious to learn how they came upon contacting you? Do you advertise speaking engagements on your website? Do you advertise hourly charges for this service? As Nancy kind of eludes, if this is your first time presenting in front of a group other than leading a workshop or something, considering this as building experience on speaking and presenting; potentially leading to future work and clients. On the other hand, if they only offer you $10, you should be able to politely remind them that wouldn't hardly cover the gas to drive to and from the club.
Here's a few items to think about:
1. get more info as mentioned. Ask what the experience level is of the members. Mostly beginners? If you talk about image blending will it be over their head? Or will they try and tell you how to process images? Know your audience.
2. Ask about the projector. Will you be using your own laptop? If so, it's CRUCIAL that you test the setup. I did not and of course my laptop was not calibrated with the projector and my images looked AWFUL!. I use CS4 on my home PC, but have CS5 loaded on my laptop (work) and was unaware of some of the new features - that someone from the club happily pointed out.....
3. Typically clubs might meet for 3 hours and may have fixed windows where they must finish by a certain time. Be sure to know how much time you'll have.
4. Do you have a print portfolio book? With your small crowd it might serve well to show some prints too, and be a backup if the projector setup doesn't work right for you.
5. Make sure you let them know that it's ok and suggested that they can ask you questions. Nothing worse than a speaker who rambles straight for 2 hours, not stopping for questions.
6. Provide lots of additional info; links to websites, NPN, Tony Kuyper, or others that you have found valuable in your progression as a photographer and image processor.
7. Turn off: "Here is an image I processed where I used my new blending technique.... buy my e-book and discover how I did it." I don't know if you even have books, articles, etc., but just make sure your presentation is complete and genuine. If it's successful, folks will ask you if you have books and then you can tell them you're happy to tell them how to buy them, but don't use your presentation as a direct sales platform.
Just my .02. Have fun and simply use this as an experience to learn and grow as a photographer and now teacher.
Lon
Note that you will never be able to profit on the total amount of work that goes into this: not only is there the time doing the presentation and driving to and from it; there's also substantial time in putting together a quality presentation. You need to decide in advance what your presentation is really going to be about: a collection of images on a specific theme (a place, the seasons, birds, flowers, close ups); field techniques; post processing; cameras and lenses; whatever. Even if you don't build your presentation on any of the last three topics expect questions on any of them and be prepared to answer them.
When you build your presentation have a reason for including every single image you plan to use - if there's not something specific you have to say about a shot it probably has no place in the show.
If its about post processing then be sure you have material that covers the steps involved rather than trying to explain "How I Did It" from a single final image.
Finally, expect to get more personally out of this than the audience. Putting your talk together is a great way to focus your own understanding and interests.
What you can do to generate money.
First of all once a club knows you they are much more likely to sign up for a workshop, shooting event, etc. with you, so advertise what you do with the club, bring brochures if you have them, business cards with your blog and website if you don't. Secondly a lot of our speakers make money by typing a workshop to their presentation. If they are known they will hold a shooting workshop Sunday the day before their program, a shorted post-processing workshop during the day before their program (programs are Monday nights). Even our speakers that travel from out of town we might pay them $300 without a workshop but as long as we get 8 people signed up for their workshop then they do the program for free. Lastly, If you get known within the camera clubs then you might get asked to speak at a bigger event (NECCC, PSA, PPA, etc.).
But having said that, I do agree that if someone is asked to put on a dedicated "workshop" that lasts longer and includes detailed handouts, some fee should be charged.
Fortunately, I've never run into a photographer that I've asked to present for our club that expected "professional" rates for their time. Usually, they are flattered that I asked and money isn't an issue.