Posted by Anil Rao on February 19, 2013 at 1:52 PM
As some of you know, I have been using the Pentax 67ii camera system for the past 10 years. I recently found out that my favorite film - Fuji Astia 100F - has been discontinued. This is a real bummer because Astia's soft natural color palette really suited the type of photography I indulge in. I still have a small stash of 220 rolls in the fridge, which I plan to use for my two on-going projects, but looking ahead it seems like I have two choices: work with another film or transition to digital capture.
I have used Velvia (50 and 100) and Provia in the past but was never quite fond of them. I was wondering if folks have any suggestions for me, especially color negative film.
Anil, I think all us film burners are in bit of transition with film choices following what the manufactures care to make, not what the end user wants IMO. Regardless, the MF users to date still have plenty of choices and more so then LF at this point in time. I still use both and have used primarily the LF for over 8 years now. As I discussed recently with Lon the films ALL lean to certain outcomes. However, with PS usage most all ills can be overcome and made to look "normal", whatever that might mean, or be seen by each photog.
Overall, it looks like Provia is going to be the cheapest to run at this date. But, like other products in life, like gasoline, it will no doubt receive the gouge as the masses move one way or another. To make that point; some of the cut sheets for 4x5 have already moved to the cost levels that the old Quickloads use to sell for. Simply a supply and demand policy as well as not allowing profit margins to slip from what was being made on all the QL's being sold originally.
So far as the color negative film the Kodak Portas seem to get very good reviews worldwide. Just a different paradigm to deal with so far as light table reviews, scanning, & post processing, but still all quite doable IMO.
I did have a question about our last email exchange, I asked about some of the 120 Astia I still have on ice but did not hear back. I have 10 rolls of outdated 120 not 220 you normally might use. Just a thought if you're interested.
Posted by Harley Goldman on February 19, 2013 at 2:52 PM
I tried a couple of boxes of Portra and Ektar. I found they worked great in brighter, open light, but in shade or overcasts, they often gave me a very, very strange color cast I found difficult to fix in Photoshop. I still have many boxes of Velvia 50 Quckloads in the fridge, with a little Astia. After that is gone, I will try the Velvia 100 or Provia.
Who knows, maybe I will chuck color film totally one day and just shoot B&W film.
The options are certainly narrowing and will likely continue to do so.
Posted by Lon Overacker on February 19, 2013 at 7:42 PM
Hi Anil,
A quandry we aging dinosaurs face... Here's my take. I generally have had good success with V100F and of course still love the V50. Had bad experiences with Astia, but haven't given it a fair shot. Kinda neutral on Provia. No experience with the negative films. Each film has it's own characteristics - and even more than that will vary person to person depending on the environment they shoot. For example someone shooting Provia mostly in the desert, may have a completely different experience of say a tog in the PNW. So it's really tough to generalize. So, to my concessions. Casting dynamic range and shadow detail aside (never an issue for me,) I've come to the realization that my processing ability is to the point that I can overcome most color issues with a variety of film. My next film purchase will probably be Provia for the simple economic reason - It's $20 cheaper per 20sheets. It's the math. We're no longer in the days where our developed slide had better be perfect because that's what we sent out for printing. Now we have the opportunity to make things how we want them, including correcting color, and to some extent with film, dynamic range with blending just like our digital friends do. Not sure if this helps, but just my .02.
Like you, I have had great results with Astia, although in some situations its warmer and slightly yellow cast has caused issues for me. (Harley calls it 'Astia Yellow', and has mentioned it more than once to me). I still have pretty good stash of Astia QL's and cut sheets, and some Velvia 100 and Portra and Ektar, so I'm OK for now.
Before I started using Astia, I shot Provia. It has a thicker base than Astia or the Velvias and I found I had to use a warming filter quite often. I found that it scanned pretty well. For a transparency film, I think it would work for you once you got used to working with it.
Lately, I have been working more with Portra-160. I love its dynamic range, but it's funny stuff. Some of my negs have been quite easy to work with in PS, and others have been problematic. My experience with Portra is akin to Harley's, except that I had one neg that was exposed for 30 seconds in dim light that was very easy to scan and process in PS--go figure. I've got some exposed (undeveloped) sheets of Ektar, so I don't know how it will work for me, as yet.
Aside from getting the negative image to a positive, the other issue with color neg film is that you have to scan it in order to see what you've got: it's very difficult to 'read' the neg. If you have a scanner, take a look at Vue Scan. It has pretty decent built-in profiles for several of the color neg films, so that when you scan, the conversion to a positve image is done by Vue Scan. For the price of the Pro version, it's a good bargain and it supports a huge array of scanners.
It is indeed unfortunate that our favorite films have gone the way of the Dodo, but that's our world today. When I started doing 4x5 color back in the 80's, I used Ektachrome 64 and Vericolor-Type S. I was sad to see them go as new emulsions came about. Both were gorgeous films and Vericolor scanned beautifully for a color neg film.
I believe you have a lot of your images drum scanned, correct? If that's the case, and since you like transparency film, I think Provia would be a good choice. Color neg would work, too, but as Paul said, it's a paradigm shift.
I hope you can find a solution that is works for you.
--P
Posted by Anil Rao on February 21, 2013 at 1:27 PM
Thanks very much for your responses. I will follow up on some of the suggestions and hopefully can continue to make effective use of my Pentax 67ii.
Discussion
5 repliesI have used Velvia (50 and 100) and Provia in the past but was never quite fond of them. I was wondering if folks have any suggestions for me, especially color negative film.
Thanks.
Overall, it looks like Provia is going to be the cheapest to run at this date. But, like other products in life, like gasoline, it will no doubt receive the gouge as the masses move one way or another. To make that point; some of the cut sheets for 4x5 have already moved to the cost levels that the old Quickloads use to sell for. Simply a supply and demand policy as well as not allowing profit margins to slip from what was being made on all the QL's being sold originally.
So far as the color negative film the Kodak Portas seem to get very good reviews worldwide. Just a different paradigm to deal with so far as light table reviews, scanning, & post processing, but still all quite doable IMO.
I did have a question about our last email exchange, I asked about some of the 120 Astia I still have on ice but did not hear back. I have 10 rolls of outdated 120 not 220 you normally might use. Just a thought if you're interested.
Who knows, maybe I will chuck color film totally one day and just shoot B&W film.
The options are certainly narrowing and will likely continue to do so.
A quandry we aging dinosaurs face... Here's my take. I generally have had good success with V100F and of course still love the V50. Had bad experiences with Astia, but haven't given it a fair shot. Kinda neutral on Provia. No experience with the negative films. Each film has it's own characteristics - and even more than that will vary person to person depending on the environment they shoot. For example someone shooting Provia mostly in the desert, may have a completely different experience of say a tog in the PNW. So it's really tough to generalize. So, to my concessions. Casting dynamic range and shadow detail aside (never an issue for me,) I've come to the realization that my processing ability is to the point that I can overcome most color issues with a variety of film. My next film purchase will probably be Provia for the simple economic reason - It's $20 cheaper per 20sheets. It's the math. We're no longer in the days where our developed slide had better be perfect because that's what we sent out for printing. Now we have the opportunity to make things how we want them, including correcting color, and to some extent with film, dynamic range with blending just like our digital friends do. Not sure if this helps, but just my .02.
Like you, I have had great results with Astia, although in some situations its warmer and slightly yellow cast has caused issues for me. (Harley calls it 'Astia Yellow', and has mentioned it more than once to me). I still have pretty good stash of Astia QL's and cut sheets, and some Velvia 100 and Portra and Ektar, so I'm OK for now.
Before I started using Astia, I shot Provia. It has a thicker base than Astia or the Velvias and I found I had to use a warming filter quite often. I found that it scanned pretty well. For a transparency film, I think it would work for you once you got used to working with it.
Lately, I have been working more with Portra-160. I love its dynamic range, but it's funny stuff. Some of my negs have been quite easy to work with in PS, and others have been problematic. My experience with Portra is akin to Harley's, except that I had one neg that was exposed for 30 seconds in dim light that was very easy to scan and process in PS--go figure. I've got some exposed (undeveloped) sheets of Ektar, so I don't know how it will work for me, as yet.
Aside from getting the negative image to a positive, the other issue with color neg film is that you have to scan it in order to see what you've got: it's very difficult to 'read' the neg. If you have a scanner, take a look at Vue Scan. It has pretty decent built-in profiles for several of the color neg films, so that when you scan, the conversion to a positve image is done by Vue Scan. For the price of the Pro version, it's a good bargain and it supports a huge array of scanners.
It is indeed unfortunate that our favorite films have gone the way of the Dodo, but that's our world today. When I started doing 4x5 color back in the 80's, I used Ektachrome 64 and Vericolor-Type S. I was sad to see them go as new emulsions came about. Both were gorgeous films and Vericolor scanned beautifully for a color neg film.
I believe you have a lot of your images drum scanned, correct? If that's the case, and since you like transparency film, I think Provia would be a good choice. Color neg would work, too, but as Paul said, it's a paradigm shift.
I hope you can find a solution that is works for you.
--P