Now that I've spent a couple of months on the site, it's much clearer to me how integral the post processing step is to producing a compelling image. But I don't find the "post and critique" learning model gives much visibility into that stage of image creation, or allows for an effective conversation about it, so I was wondering if there was a way to add a group post processing challenge, like the shooting challenges?
One raw full frame shot could be selected from user submissions or provided by a moderator/host and made available and then anyone interested could take a stab at post processing and posting their version and sharing specifically what they did. I would find it hugely informative to be working off the same initial shot and see what kinds of results others produce using their software, honed workflows and expertise, plus engaging in a discussion around all those issues and choices, working off a common image. It could perhaps just be hosted/moderated as a thread in the digital imaging forum.
thanks,
Jeff
Posted by Scott Fricke on April 25, 2013 at 3:56 PM
Excellent suggestion Jeff, it definitely would be an interesting exercise.
Well Done Jeff,
Interesting idea and it would also give a real perspective of all the various editing software available.
Welcome aboard -
Posted by Jim Erhardt on April 26, 2013 at 6:31 AM
Jeff, great idea!
We could host the RAW file on the NPN server, and then post the challenge in the DI forum. Just beware that once we do that, anyone visiting the site will be able to download that file and use it (and take credit for it) without your knowledge.
The other way to distribute the file is by email request, but that IMO would discourage participation.
This sounds interesting, but I'd like to make a couple of suggestions:
The person submitting the file should convert it to a tiff file type. Not veryone may have the appropriate converter, nor use Photo Shop or Light Room as their image editor.
The person who submits the file should put a copyright notice on the image before it is uploaded to the server.
Jim: You could set up FTP so that only a NPN Member could download it using their NPN logon credentials.
Yes, I like this idea. As a rookie processor I have often thought about submitting my raw files for anybody to process as they wish.
It would be nice to see the same photograph processed through the eyes of various skilled members.
Posted by Richard Ditch on April 26, 2013 at 3:44 PM
I've thought of this in the past, and we've seen it it already in small scale where one person volunteers to rework another person's image from scratch. I think it would be fun and educational for lots of NPN participants.
I agree, though, about the need to protect image ownership in any way possible.
I differ with Preston about making the image TIFF instead of RAW, though. I think a lot of the fine points of image processing are in raw conversion, so starting with a tiff takes away an important part of my work flow. There's an issue with newer cameras for those of us using older versions of Photoshop (and perhaps other applications), but I'd address that through Adobe's free DNG converter.
Posted by Paul DeCesare on April 27, 2013 at 2:58 AM
The person submitting the file should convert it to a tiff file type. Not veryone may have the appropriate converter, nor use Photo Shop or Light Room as their image editor.
Preston has a good point, but PLEASE also post the RAW file along with the tiff/etc. I do a LOT in ACR before it hits Photoshop and would prefer the RAW file. Posting both should be easy, yes/no?
I guess the next step would be to find a moderator for it, hopefully someone with lots of experience? Perhaps users could submit files and the moderator could pick one they think has enough initial quality (sharpness, etc) to make it a useful exercise, then we go from there. Is it possible to post 1200 pixel size images to regular forum posts? I would think posting the larger size would be more useful.
I don't think one can post a RAW or TIFF file and have it viewable on a web browser. The RAW file would have to be uploaded via FTP to a server where they could be downloaded.
After conversion, and other adjustments, the resulting image would be saved as jpeg and then posted on the site.
So, I think the next steps are up to Jim, assuming he wants to do this...
*Decide where on NPN the images and procedures would be posted, and who would manage it, and what the guidelines will be.
(This may need to be a separate gallery with it's own moderator. I don't know)
*Decide what size RAW, and/or TIFF, file (in MB) could be uploaded.
(Available storage space and bandwidth would be big considerations)
*Create the FTP mechanisms for upload/download.
Although it would also be fairly straightforward to accomplish this with no particular new support from NPN, if that's difficult for some reason:
-- a free account on a file sharing site like "Mega" or Google Drive can be the download/upload center, allowing for web based private storage by multiple users, as an actual collaborative file repository.
-- any volunteer could be moderator and solicit contributions which users can place in the shared area
-- the moderator looks through submissions and selects one, then generates and uploads other formats if needed - DNG, TIFF, etc, - and places all formats back in the shared area and deletes all other submissions
-- moderator announces the selection and interested users can download a format they can use, post their 1200 pixel version in the main forum thread, but also upload any other sizes or associated files, like a PSD with their actual processing, to the shared area.
Then only an NPN forum thread is needed for the coordination.
Image protection would be through the obscurity of the shared URL to access, so only NPN members could get them, although nobody should submit any images that they would actually be concerned about if they DID leak out in some fashion. Images certainly don't need to be anyone's best or most prized to be useful for this exercise.
So all we need to get going is a volunteer moderator with some imaging knowhow - any volunteers or nominations?
I contacted Jim about the possibility of moderating this endeavor. I have an extensive background in digital post processing and teach both LightRoom and Photoshop. Let's see how Jim wants to structure this effort if it gets off the ground.
Discussion
14 repliesOne raw full frame shot could be selected from user submissions or provided by a moderator/host and made available and then anyone interested could take a stab at post processing and posting their version and sharing specifically what they did. I would find it hugely informative to be working off the same initial shot and see what kinds of results others produce using their software, honed workflows and expertise, plus engaging in a discussion around all those issues and choices, working off a common image. It could perhaps just be hosted/moderated as a thread in the digital imaging forum.
thanks,
Jeff
Sandy
Interesting idea and it would also give a real perspective of all the various editing software available.
Welcome aboard -
We could host the RAW file on the NPN server, and then post the challenge in the DI forum. Just beware that once we do that, anyone visiting the site will be able to download that file and use it (and take credit for it) without your knowledge.
The other way to distribute the file is by email request, but that IMO would discourage participation.
The person submitting the file should convert it to a tiff file type. Not veryone may have the appropriate converter, nor use Photo Shop or Light Room as their image editor.
The person who submits the file should put a copyright notice on the image before it is uploaded to the server.
Jim: You could set up FTP so that only a NPN Member could download it using their NPN logon credentials.
--P
It would be nice to see the same photograph processed through the eyes of various skilled members.
I agree, though, about the need to protect image ownership in any way possible.
I differ with Preston about making the image TIFF instead of RAW, though. I think a lot of the fine points of image processing are in raw conversion, so starting with a tiff takes away an important part of my work flow. There's an issue with newer cameras for those of us using older versions of Photoshop (and perhaps other applications), but I'd address that through Adobe's free DNG converter.
Preston has a good point, but PLEASE also post the RAW file along with the tiff/etc. I do a LOT in ACR before it hits Photoshop and would prefer the RAW file. Posting both should be easy, yes/no?
I don't think one can post a RAW or TIFF file and have it viewable on a web browser. The RAW file would have to be uploaded via FTP to a server where they could be downloaded.
After conversion, and other adjustments, the resulting image would be saved as jpeg and then posted on the site.
So, I think the next steps are up to Jim, assuming he wants to do this...
*Decide where on NPN the images and procedures would be posted, and who would manage it, and what the guidelines will be.
(This may need to be a separate gallery with it's own moderator. I don't know)
*Decide what size RAW, and/or TIFF, file (in MB) could be uploaded.
(Available storage space and bandwidth would be big considerations)
*Create the FTP mechanisms for upload/download.
So, Jim, what do you think?
--P
-- a free account on a file sharing site like "Mega" or Google Drive can be the download/upload center, allowing for web based private storage by multiple users, as an actual collaborative file repository.
-- any volunteer could be moderator and solicit contributions which users can place in the shared area
-- the moderator looks through submissions and selects one, then generates and uploads other formats if needed - DNG, TIFF, etc, - and places all formats back in the shared area and deletes all other submissions
-- moderator announces the selection and interested users can download a format they can use, post their 1200 pixel version in the main forum thread, but also upload any other sizes or associated files, like a PSD with their actual processing, to the shared area.
Then only an NPN forum thread is needed for the coordination.
Image protection would be through the obscurity of the shared URL to access, so only NPN members could get them, although nobody should submit any images that they would actually be concerned about if they DID leak out in some fashion. Images certainly don't need to be anyone's best or most prized to be useful for this exercise.
So all we need to get going is a volunteer moderator with some imaging knowhow - any volunteers or nominations?