Adobe has officially announced that PS - CS6 is the end of the line for over the counter software. Once Adobe pushes out the next generation, it'll cost you $50 a month for a one year subscription via "the Cloud."
$600 a year ... every year!
I'm still using CS5 and really haven't felt a need to upgrade to CS6. Maybe I'll upgrade just to settle in for the long haul, because I'll be d*mned if I'll pay the cost of a decent lens every year just to PP my images.
It will be interesting to see whether this proves to be a viable business model for Adobe in the long run. In the short run, their stock value dropped 1% today with this announcement.
I'm with you, Howard. I'll upgrade to CS6 and that's it for me. Simply can't justify $600/year. They are doing the same thing with Lightroom, I suppose?
Going to be interesting. By changing their business model I see them losing a ton of business. Will another company step up and create an acceptable alternative? Will Adobe cave and give guys like us a cheaper alternative like PS only ( Cloud version is several Adobe products if I read it correctly). At any rate the market will determine the answer. Guess I'll just get a big bag of popcorn and set back and watch.
Joe Rogers
$50 a month will be the cost of the entire Creative Suite. PS alone will run $20 a month.
Elements and Lightroom will probably remain unchanged.
It still sucks, and this will also be my last Adobe purchase. I hope the backlash is loud and clear on this subject.
I don't care for the cloud based software concept, unless they are offering a MAJOR saving for their customers.
$50/month might be a great deal for those that use the full suite, but I don't.
I have CS5 and that will be the end of the road for me, if they don't unbundle the software.
Many feel the same as you do, John, and Adobe may well pay for its arrogance. It's not like there are no companies who could afford to enter the fray..Google just bought Nik software and could be looking at a place to jump in. Like I said, It could get interesting.
Joe Rogers
They didn't get that big, by being stupid. You and I can continue using PS 5 or 6 for now, but what happens when they eventually come out with Windows 9 or 10 or whatever and Adobe PS will no longer furnish drivers for the new Window's systems. We will all be forced into the monthly fee.
If they feel enough heat, they may not go to the cloud system. When they tried to say you could no longer upgrade two levels of PS (say from PS4 to PS 6), they got enough flack that they backed off. Maybe the same will be true for the cloud based system. They may still offer the hard system, but it won't be cheap.
No doubt I am somewhat glad I recently purchased CS6. However, I had basically relied on Aperture and plugins for most of the simple editing. So, staying with CS6 probably will work for me a quite a while. But an issue that will come up in the future and those who rely on ACR for RAW conversion. I have read Adobe will be providing one more ACR update for CS6; thus, forcing folks to subscribe to be able to have the updated version of ACR for new cameras.
Also, what about plugins and actions? Will they be forced to bow to Adobe and go the route of the cloud?
I'm curious what happens when Adobe gets hit with a some kind of hack on the server or malfunction that checks to see if people are paid for the month?
Although I have always thought poorly of Adobe's business end, this kind of "service" is probably the future for all companies. If nothing else, this new practice will raise a hellstorm of reaction!
Not sure what to do about Photoshop in the long term. I do have some Premiere interests, but $600 a year even with all the other parts is robbery.
As for LR, I am underwhelmed by the new features. Why not OpenCL support? I have been migrating to Capture One and DxO Pro; and invested in full 30-bit RGB (10-bit/channel) workflow using a FirePro W5000 card and NEC PA-series monitors. These packages support OpenCL and I am able to view in 30-bit mode. Lightroom, apparently even in the new version, does not support any of this.
Adobe seems stuck in the mode of needless version pipeline to justify development (see Microsoft Office) and getting stuck in a subscription system forever in not something I want to do.
If I can find an alternative to PS Editing; and if Google can move NIK tools to standalone or something else cool, I think my Adobe days may be short.
Karl, I'm not sure what's going on with your e-mail function, but every time you post a response to one of my posts, I get about a dozen copies of your post in my e-mail box.
" I have read Adobe will be providing one more ACR update for CS6; thus, forcing folks to subscribe to be able to have the updated version of ACR for new cameras"
Ken, You can always use the free Adobe Camera Raw->DNG Converter to support RAW files from newer camera models. Alas, no other software will run Tony K.'s brilliant Luminosity Mask actions.
I think Adobe is underestimating how many people who buy PS aren't in a business that allows you to deduct these fees as a cost of doing business. For those who can, these fees are probably doable, since their customers will end up paying for the increased cost. This new pricing model will hopefully stimulate some desperately needed competition. At $240/year, that is a real money grab over the $149 update fee in the past. I have CS5 and agree that getting the CS6 upgrade is probably a short term solution for those who purchase new cameras and use ACR. Fortunately, Canon DPP software has been improving although slowly in comparison to ACR.
I also wonder how fast upload and download speeds will be. I don't see how those speeds could even approach the speeds of having the software on your own desktop. Personally I prefer to have my own cloud (2 - 3.0 USB external hard drives for storage).
Don, just for clarification there is no need to worry about download speed. The subscription works just like the regular software. You download the program(s) you want and install it on your desktop as you normally would. Once a month it logs in online to see if your subscription is up-to-date. If it isn't, then it disables the program.
I used the Creative Cloud option all of last year and really enjoyed it at the $29.99 price. I use InDesign, PS, and a few other things and so it was beneficial to me. However, with the price increase to $50 per month, I'm now trying to figure out what to do as that really stretches my budget more than I would like. I'm considering using my old PS5, buying LR 5 for about $100 and then getting the license for InDesign while I finish off my next book. After next year I'm not sure what I'm going to do. I have been on the Adobe forums asking them to take into consideration those of us who just need access to a couple of programs. For those who aren't doing this professionally, I don't know what to say. Their pricing is very steep and difficult to justify.
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To clarify, as Erik pointed out, you don't have to work in the cloud -- it just checks in to see if your subscription fees are paid-up. Scott Kelby says that is checks in every 37 days. Also, it looks like you can subscribe to only Photoshop at $20 per month, or $10 per month for the first year if you're a current licensee of CS6.
Living in the boonies and travelling deeper into the boonies, I'm never a fan of having to check in through your internet connection. Lord only knows if my local ISP is going to decide to play nicely with any new forms of DRM, or if I'm going to be able to reverify through the free wifi at the Moab public library while I'm on the road...
And has everyone forgotten some of the horror stories from the upgrades of the past? I know of a couple pro's who used CS3 on old legacy Macs because it took a year or two to get OS 10.6 to communicate color management properly with all of the software add-ons, RIPS, and printer drivers.
Furthermore, if I upgrade every other version of PS, the price per month is a fair bit less than $20 per month.
I'm particularly annoyed since I'm one of the holdouts who still does most of my work in PS rather than in Lightroom.
I don't use most of the "features" in Photoshop. Hopefully we'll see enough basic features added in to Elements that we might be able to shift to using LR and Elements.
Still, though -- why? It seems like a move that helps Adobe, not the customer.
Mark, Adobe took away the option of skipping upgrades last year. You had to buy EVERY upgrade, otherwise you pay the full new price. So, skipping every other version is not a realistic way of comparing current ownership cost.
Even so, the $20 monthly fee is MUCH more expensive than paying $200 every 18 months.
I don't have a problem with the cloud concept. Until CS6, I've purchased every upgrade since 1999.
If they were charging $10 per month, I'm sure most people would accept the cloud licensing.
That's basically what we are paying now.
For me, $360, almost double, every 18 months is simply unacceptable for hobby use.
Yes, they are offering a $10 discount for the first 12 months to their "faithful" users.
Adobe has lost my $200 upgrade for CS6 and I plan to use CS5 as long as I can load it to my computer.
It will be interesting to see if Adobe can maintain this single app pricing structure, after the 1st yr discount.
So far, I haven't seen too many amateur photographers willing to hop onto this treadmill.
Adobe is obviously free to charge what they want to charge. However, they are loosing the war over Flash and this might very well be another bad decision of theirs. I personally hope that Google steps up (with the NIK acquisition) and offers us a reasonable alternative to this pricing model.
People like Scott Kelby and others are downplaying the concerns of CC, but they also are admitted partners of Adobe or on Adobe's payroll in some form. Everyone who is simply a consumer buying Adobe's product seems slightly concerned to outraged by this model. For someone like me, I don't really value all the enhancements and simply upgrade for the ACR enhancements. Maybe I'll create a bridge between Canon DPP and old versions of Adobe :)
Bill, Hitler might "cave," but I sure as heck won't. And if the poll at dpreview.com today is any indicator, it just might be Adobe that caves eventually.
You know, it just occurred to me that Adobe's strategy might be to trot out what they have ... let everyone vent their spleens for a while ... and then announce that Cloud pricing will be lowered to a more reasonable level. That way, they could get what they want (the security of the Cloud) and still retain the bulk of their customer base.
Howard, yes, reducing the PS only subscription to ~$10 per month, after the first year, would be a reasonable first step.
However, most other software that is sold on a subscription basis allows you to retain a full working copy of the software if you stop paying. It's just frozen and no longer updated. With Adobe's current policy, you have NOTHING and are essentially locked out of any layered PSD files, so kiss any nondestructive workflow goodbye. Even if you keep an old copy of CS, good luck editing any layers which have been created with new CC features.
So, once you jump onto the Creative Cloud treadmill, it will not take too long before you are totally locked in to whatever they want to charge you per month. Or, plan to flatten all you files and export them as TIFFS before you stop payments.
I also thought that a major motivation for the new subscription model was to get control of the pirated copies.
However, an interview with one of the Adobe executives made it quite clear that they have no delusions of being able to prevent pirating of Cloud licenses. This was definitely NOT one of their objectives.
Adobe may cave over the short term, but I have certainly lost ALL long term trust.
Heck, they should have started out with $5 per month Photoshop subscriptions, and then, when that have you completely hooked after a year or two, jack it up to $50.
Wow! some very interesting tidbits to think about, and like most others here, I'm outraged by this decision. Even more so after Bill's comments about loosing the non destructive data on the tiff files. I have CS6 and it will be my last purchase unless something changes in their structure. I understand their reasons, but think they've made a BIG mistake!!
I'm going to hold out with CS5 as long as possible, and in the meantime curse Adobe and cheer for competitors. For example Photo Ninja is a killer RAW processor.
I'm hoping Capture One improves its DAM module. It's raw conversions are awesome. If they can develop a more robust digtial asset management module they will easily compete with LR. Capture One and DXO are excellent raw converters. Picture Window Pro, Gimp, and Paintshop Pro are worth looking into as well as PS replacements. Hopefully Adobe will get past it's greed and be more reasonable but there are other options.
"With Adobe's current policy, you have NOTHING and are essentially locked out of any layered PSD files, so kiss any nondestructive workflow goodbye."
Not quite. You can have the exact same layered files using the TIF format. In fact, last year there was a discussion about converting all of one's PDF files to TIF in order to step away from an Adobe proprietary format. A lot of pros have done just that, and they sure seem prescient now.
John, please correct me if I am wrong.
If you create a layered TIFF format, the layer may be available outside of CS or CC, but the edits are "baked in".
i.e. on a curves adjustment layer, you can no longer expect to modify the curve in a future edit.
Therefore, no nondestructive workflow option. Why even bother to save all those layers in TIFF and eat up disk space?
Discussion
28 replies$600 a year ... every year!
I'm still using CS5 and really haven't felt a need to upgrade to CS6. Maybe I'll upgrade just to settle in for the long haul, because I'll be d*mned if I'll pay the cost of a decent lens every year just to PP my images.
It will be interesting to see whether this proves to be a viable business model for Adobe in the long run. In the short run, their stock value dropped 1% today with this announcement.
Joe Rogers
Elements and Lightroom will probably remain unchanged.
It still sucks, and this will also be my last Adobe purchase. I hope the backlash is loud and clear on this subject.
$50/month might be a great deal for those that use the full suite, but I don't.
I have CS5 and that will be the end of the road for me, if they don't unbundle the software.
Joe Rogers
If they feel enough heat, they may not go to the cloud system. When they tried to say you could no longer upgrade two levels of PS (say from PS4 to PS 6), they got enough flack that they backed off. Maybe the same will be true for the cloud based system. They may still offer the hard system, but it won't be cheap.
Also, what about plugins and actions? Will they be forced to bow to Adobe and go the route of the cloud?
I'm curious what happens when Adobe gets hit with a some kind of hack on the server or malfunction that checks to see if people are paid for the month?
Although I have always thought poorly of Adobe's business end, this kind of "service" is probably the future for all companies. If nothing else, this new practice will raise a hellstorm of reaction!
As for LR, I am underwhelmed by the new features. Why not OpenCL support? I have been migrating to Capture One and DxO Pro; and invested in full 30-bit RGB (10-bit/channel) workflow using a FirePro W5000 card and NEC PA-series monitors. These packages support OpenCL and I am able to view in 30-bit mode. Lightroom, apparently even in the new version, does not support any of this.
Adobe seems stuck in the mode of needless version pipeline to justify development (see Microsoft Office) and getting stuck in a subscription system forever in not something I want to do.
If I can find an alternative to PS Editing; and if Google can move NIK tools to standalone or something else cool, I think my Adobe days may be short.
I used the Creative Cloud option all of last year and really enjoyed it at the $29.99 price. I use InDesign, PS, and a few other things and so it was beneficial to me. However, with the price increase to $50 per month, I'm now trying to figure out what to do as that really stretches my budget more than I would like. I'm considering using my old PS5, buying LR 5 for about $100 and then getting the license for InDesign while I finish off my next book. After next year I'm not sure what I'm going to do. I have been on the Adobe forums asking them to take into consideration those of us who just need access to a couple of programs. For those who aren't doing this professionally, I don't know what to say. Their pricing is very steep and difficult to justify.
\
Living in the boonies and travelling deeper into the boonies, I'm never a fan of having to check in through your internet connection. Lord only knows if my local ISP is going to decide to play nicely with any new forms of DRM, or if I'm going to be able to reverify through the free wifi at the Moab public library while I'm on the road...
And has everyone forgotten some of the horror stories from the upgrades of the past? I know of a couple pro's who used CS3 on old legacy Macs because it took a year or two to get OS 10.6 to communicate color management properly with all of the software add-ons, RIPS, and printer drivers.
Furthermore, if I upgrade every other version of PS, the price per month is a fair bit less than $20 per month.
I'm particularly annoyed since I'm one of the holdouts who still does most of my work in PS rather than in Lightroom.
I don't use most of the "features" in Photoshop. Hopefully we'll see enough basic features added in to Elements that we might be able to shift to using LR and Elements.
Still, though -- why? It seems like a move that helps Adobe, not the customer.
Even so, the $20 monthly fee is MUCH more expensive than paying $200 every 18 months.
I don't have a problem with the cloud concept. Until CS6, I've purchased every upgrade since 1999.
If they were charging $10 per month, I'm sure most people would accept the cloud licensing.
That's basically what we are paying now.
For me, $360, almost double, every 18 months is simply unacceptable for hobby use.
Yes, they are offering a $10 discount for the first 12 months to their "faithful" users.
Adobe has lost my $200 upgrade for CS6 and I plan to use CS5 as long as I can load it to my computer.
It will be interesting to see if Adobe can maintain this single app pricing structure, after the 1st yr discount.
So far, I haven't seen too many amateur photographers willing to hop onto this treadmill.
People like Scott Kelby and others are downplaying the concerns of CC, but they also are admitted partners of Adobe or on Adobe's payroll in some form. Everyone who is simply a consumer buying Adobe's product seems slightly concerned to outraged by this model. For someone like me, I don't really value all the enhancements and simply upgrade for the ACR enhancements. Maybe I'll create a bridge between Canon DPP and old versions of Adobe :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67Iw9q2X9cU&feature=youtu.be
As you can probably guess, the subtitles very rarely follow the German dialog.
You know, it just occurred to me that Adobe's strategy might be to trot out what they have ... let everyone vent their spleens for a while ... and then announce that Cloud pricing will be lowered to a more reasonable level. That way, they could get what they want (the security of the Cloud) and still retain the bulk of their customer base.
However, most other software that is sold on a subscription basis allows you to retain a full working copy of the software if you stop paying. It's just frozen and no longer updated. With Adobe's current policy, you have NOTHING and are essentially locked out of any layered PSD files, so kiss any nondestructive workflow goodbye. Even if you keep an old copy of CS, good luck editing any layers which have been created with new CC features.
So, once you jump onto the Creative Cloud treadmill, it will not take too long before you are totally locked in to whatever they want to charge you per month. Or, plan to flatten all you files and export them as TIFFS before you stop payments.
I also thought that a major motivation for the new subscription model was to get control of the pirated copies.
However, an interview with one of the Adobe executives made it quite clear that they have no delusions of being able to prevent pirating of Cloud licenses. This was definitely NOT one of their objectives.
Adobe may cave over the short term, but I have certainly lost ALL long term trust.
Heck, they should have started out with $5 per month Photoshop subscriptions, and then, when that have you completely hooked after a year or two, jack it up to $50.
I am not necessarily totally opposed to the cloud concept, but their pricing is a slap in the face.
Here is a petition, not that that's going change anything: http://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-eliminate-the-mandatory-creative-cloud-subscription-model
I'm going to hold out with CS5 as long as possible, and in the meantime curse Adobe and cheer for competitors. For example Photo Ninja is a killer RAW processor.
If you create a layered TIFF format, the layer may be available outside of CS or CC, but the edits are "baked in".
i.e. on a curves adjustment layer, you can no longer expect to modify the curve in a future edit.
Therefore, no nondestructive workflow option. Why even bother to save all those layers in TIFF and eat up disk space?