For everyone who is complaining about this matter, the solution is simple: Develop your own software. That way you can decide what happens to it. In fact, I demand that you do this now and give it away to anyone who wants it. Wait, better yet! You pay people to use it! After all, just because you developed something does not mean that you own it and can decide what to do with it, right? While you are at it I would like you to grant me full copyright to all of your images for a one time, low, low fee since I am an individual and not a 'big corporation' with lots of money.
Thought I would take a moment and sound as selfish and self centered as most everyone else on this matter.
If you don't like what a business is charging don't use their service. You don't like it, come up with you own. None of us are entitled to use Adobe, it's not a right; it's a choice.
Do I think it's a good move for Adobe? Probably not, but it's their company.
I'm not attacking anyone, just throwing my own $1.50 in the fray and illustrating absurdity by being absurd.
Ron - yes, Adobe has every right to charge whatever they want. But users also have every right to bitch and groan about it. The fact is there are no viable alternatives to Photoshop, so Adobe knows they've got us by the balls and they are exercising their rights to squeeze the hell out of them. What kind of response do you expect?!
It goes well beyond the $, it goes to the heart that they have every right to do whatever it is they want to do with the company. If they want to smash it into the ground they can do that, if they want to build it even larger they can do that as well. I was, and am, specifically addressing the comments (not just here, but everywhere) that Adobe should do exactly what we want them to do. I don't like what they are doing either (I've been a cloud member for almost a year) but it is their right, as you've said. I expect people to be upset and concerned, not grab torches and make threats (none have been made on this forum) or start trash talking a company/product that has served almost all of us very, very, well for many years.
Remember the 'great' decision that was made and we ended up with 'New Coke' several years ago? That didn't last long and I really don't think this will either. Time will tell.
And of course, when a door closes a window opens. That window may allow an emerging company to push through with a product equal to or greater than Photoshop. I'm all for that.
Rather than cursing the darkness lets light a candle and find a better solution. Yeah, sounds a whole easier than it is...but everything will work out the way it's meant to be.
Ron, I would be very surprised if there is a single person complaining about this situation who isn't aware of every point you brought up and isn't in full support of every point you brought up. That doesn't mean however that we as customers should roll over and give up. That also doesn't mean Adobe should roll over and back off their new program. All companies, regardless of how large they are, (I worked for a Fortune 500 company for 37 years) realize the need to treat their customers with respect and provide excellent customer service or they will fail when their customers go elsewhere. Adobe has an awesome product that we all love, but when a company more than doubles their price for their product, and doesn't demonstrate an equivelant increase in what their product does (can you say "value"), there will be backlash, especially when that company has a virtual monopoly on the product in question. I believe that this would not happen if there was at least one other company that was even close to competing with them. As a result, the reaction of the customer becomes one of being taken advantage of. I, for one, have bought my last Adobe product unless Adobe can introduce a raft of new features that can justify the price increase. If a large enough number of current Adobe customers feel the same, then Adobe just may realize the need for change to win back those customers. This could take 2-3 years to happen if it even does happen. It's possible that Adobe's demographics show the vast majority of users are business owners rather than amateur, and part-time pros which means they assume the cost increase will be absorbed and passed on to customers of those business owners. Time will tell if we can make a difference, but we should at least try!
Hey Don. Yeah, I think it's a bonehead move as well and we'll see what happens. I voiced my opinions as I've only been reading one side to the story and if Adobe wants to walk away from certain sales they can. REAL crappy way to do business, though. I've worked in a partnership arrangement with a couple companies that are in the top 50 globally and I've worked as a sole proprietor... it all boils down to great customer service. It's like Jake Jabs has said for years; "Under promise and over deliver."
While I can't pretend to know the numbers that Adobe crunched to come up with this scenario, I don't think they are stupid (financially, anyway) and would hope that they thoroughly researched this before deciding. Maybe it's just a game of $ and the hard line of the bottom line ink, I don't know. It could also be another 'New Coke' or the Wal Mart 'Clean Store' scenario which almost killed them.
My guess right now is that we have not heard the end of this and Adobe will modify the announcement once the dust has settled.
I've been sitting idle watching the sparks fly, and putting together a short comment on the subject which I'll post later. We can rant and do have the right, but as a software developer by day, I can tell you that this is the model that E-V-E-R-Y major company has been planning for some time, Adobe is simply one of the first to take the leap. If yoiu like using Microsoft Office, grab a copy of Office 2013, because that's the last version you'll be buying. It will also go subscription/cloud, and well as Windows after Windows 8 runs out. I seriously doubt Adobe will retract, they will take the pings in te armor until the dust settles. They'll point everyone to Lightroom which will still be a purchased version for now.
It seems ridiculous right now, but so did cable TV in the 70s. "You're kidding, I'm going to PAY to get channels when I can just use an antenna?? NO WAY, I'll never pay!" Now look where we are. But for that fee you get WAY more. In fact, you get more than you want regardless if you like it, lol!
I'll pop out a short post about how it'll really affect folks, and what the hidden gems are. Here's one: if you used to buy the $199 upgrade for Photoshop every 18 months (I did), that cost you $11 per month if you divide the 18 months into it. If you had PS Extended it was $349 to upgrade. If you hop on the Photoshop Cloud for $9.99 per month (assuming you have CS3 or later, that's their special offer), you get the full extended version of Photoshop, it's a subscription so you can write it off easier than depreciating expensive software, and my favorite feature: You can use your first install on your Mac at home and put your second install on your Windows PC at work (or wherever), no more rigid platform restriction! And you do NOT need to be connected to the internet after installation to use it, that's a big rumour hopping around that's wrong, FYI.
You probably figured out by now that I am all for this new model, BUT, it's because I own the Production Premium suite and now get absolutely everything Adobe makes for $19.99 a month the first year. It feels like Christmas to me. Most folks don't use all of that stuff, I realize that. I'm probably the only NPN member who's jumping for joy, LOL! Hopefully y'all will still talk to me...
How many of us thought we would be purchasing small bottles of water 25 years ago? How many of us had heard of the internet 25 years ago? How many of us were shooting film 25 years ago? Things change, evolve, grow, die, etc. We don't have to like any it but if we don't find a way to make it work for us....
I, for one, have enjoyed having every single product Adobe has to offer for $30/month for the past year. I've tried out things that I normally would not have had the opportunity to try and my end product has benefited and will continue to subscribe. Like I said earlier, I don't know what the numbers added up to that encouraged this move but it must make fiscal sense to Adobe.
Ron, as the guy who started the thread that led to this one, allow me to say, "You're WAY off base."
Yes, you have the right to express your opinion, and Adobe has the right to run their business any legal way they want. But the thread was never about anyone's rights. It was about how we personally felt about Adobe's decision and how we were going to react to it.
I don't know you, Ron, but I'd be willing to bet a fair sum of money that somewhere, sometime in YOUR life you've reacted in more or less the same way to a decision that was going to cost you a lot more money than you thought it was worth. This is no different.
Guys, I'm close to shutting down this topic if things keep moving toward personal attacks between members.
Lately, we've had a lot of Off-Topic posts and the moderators have discussed sending a reminder about the core mission of this forum for a while, and how we seem to be veering away from it. Here is a reminder taken from NPN's Posting Guidelines:
Rules of Conduct
NPN is strictly dedicated to the art and technique of nature photography and all conversation should pertain directly to it. While on-topic spirited debate is welcome, please keep all conversation congenial, professional and non-judgmental of other's abilities and integrity. Discussion of religion, politics/political activism or any other controversial subject that has little or nothing to do with the art and technique of nature photography is subject to deletion without notice. We suggest that you review the basic rules of Netiquette for additional information on effectively communicating with others over the Internet. If you have any issues or concerns with any aspect of forum activity, please contact the forum moderator(s) using their email contacts at the top of the forum page. You may also contact NPN administration directly at editor@naturephotographers.net.
While software is often an integral part in how we develop our photos these days, the discussion about this controversial topic is becoming less about technique and more a clash of personal opinions. The moderators encourage discussion about the possible pros and cons of Adobe's product plans from a photography workflow standpoint, but we will NOT tolerate personal attacks. Please keep your comments civil and respectful of one another. Thank you.
Posted by Jack Garrett on May 10, 2013 at 12:25 PM
Ron, as the guy who started the thread that led to this one, allow me to say, "You're WAY off base."
Yes, you have the right to express your opinion, and Adobe has the right to run their business any legal way they want. But the thread was never about anyone's rights. It was about how we personally felt about Adobe's decision and how we were going to react to it.
I don't know you, Ron, but I'd be willing to bet a fair sum of money that somewhere, sometime in YOUR life you've reacted in more or less the same way to a decision that was going to cost you a lot more money than you thought it was worth. This is no different.
End quote.
Well Howard, we all have our own views and I never singled anyone out for what their 'feelings' were. I have extra wide shoulders though and have no problem that you have a different opinion from my own. That's what makes for a good discussion.
Not to worry Josh, I don't view what Howard has said as an attack. I purposefully posted in a thread different from the one he started so that no one would get their shorts in a wad. Nice try, huh?:)
Bottom line is really this: If you don't think it's worth it, don't buy it. You are not being forced to buy it. If you shoot for a living it's another expense that is passed on. I shoot for a living and the cost will be passed on as with all things.
I will persevere to always try and remain positive rather than curse the darkness. That's just me and I don't have any expectations of others.
Peace be with you all, now get off the computer to go shoot something worthwhile!
I understand there are some members for whom PP software, in whatever form, is just "a cost of doing business." Perhaps I have the wrong impression that a majority of the members, like myself, aren't shooting and post-processing for a living. For us amateurs, photography is an awfully expensive means of expressing our creative urges in order to maintain a tenuous hold on our sanity in an all too often increasingly insane world. For that reason, we really resent anyone's decision to make it a lot more expensive than it already is.
I suppose it might be too much to expect some pros to appreciate the POV of the amateurs, but it does occur to me that in the (unlikely?) event the groundswell of negative reaction to this decision causes Adobe to abandon it, then the pros will benefit as much as the amateurs.
Discussion
13 repliesThought I would take a moment and sound as selfish and self centered as most everyone else on this matter.
If you don't like what a business is charging don't use their service. You don't like it, come up with you own. None of us are entitled to use Adobe, it's not a right; it's a choice.
Do I think it's a good move for Adobe? Probably not, but it's their company.
I'm not attacking anyone, just throwing my own $1.50 in the fray and illustrating absurdity by being absurd.
Rant over.
Remember the 'great' decision that was made and we ended up with 'New Coke' several years ago? That didn't last long and I really don't think this will either. Time will tell.
And of course, when a door closes a window opens. That window may allow an emerging company to push through with a product equal to or greater than Photoshop. I'm all for that.
Rather than cursing the darkness lets light a candle and find a better solution. Yeah, sounds a whole easier than it is...but everything will work out the way it's meant to be.
While I can't pretend to know the numbers that Adobe crunched to come up with this scenario, I don't think they are stupid (financially, anyway) and would hope that they thoroughly researched this before deciding. Maybe it's just a game of $ and the hard line of the bottom line ink, I don't know. It could also be another 'New Coke' or the Wal Mart 'Clean Store' scenario which almost killed them.
My guess right now is that we have not heard the end of this and Adobe will modify the announcement once the dust has settled.
It seems ridiculous right now, but so did cable TV in the 70s. "You're kidding, I'm going to PAY to get channels when I can just use an antenna?? NO WAY, I'll never pay!" Now look where we are. But for that fee you get WAY more. In fact, you get more than you want regardless if you like it, lol!
I'll pop out a short post about how it'll really affect folks, and what the hidden gems are. Here's one: if you used to buy the $199 upgrade for Photoshop every 18 months (I did), that cost you $11 per month if you divide the 18 months into it. If you had PS Extended it was $349 to upgrade. If you hop on the Photoshop Cloud for $9.99 per month (assuming you have CS3 or later, that's their special offer), you get the full extended version of Photoshop, it's a subscription so you can write it off easier than depreciating expensive software, and my favorite feature: You can use your first install on your Mac at home and put your second install on your Windows PC at work (or wherever), no more rigid platform restriction! And you do NOT need to be connected to the internet after installation to use it, that's a big rumour hopping around that's wrong, FYI.
You probably figured out by now that I am all for this new model, BUT, it's because I own the Production Premium suite and now get absolutely everything Adobe makes for $19.99 a month the first year. It feels like Christmas to me. Most folks don't use all of that stuff, I realize that. I'm probably the only NPN member who's jumping for joy, LOL! Hopefully y'all will still talk to me...
I, for one, have enjoyed having every single product Adobe has to offer for $30/month for the past year. I've tried out things that I normally would not have had the opportunity to try and my end product has benefited and will continue to subscribe. Like I said earlier, I don't know what the numbers added up to that encouraged this move but it must make fiscal sense to Adobe.
Yes, you have the right to express your opinion, and Adobe has the right to run their business any legal way they want. But the thread was never about anyone's rights. It was about how we personally felt about Adobe's decision and how we were going to react to it.
I don't know you, Ron, but I'd be willing to bet a fair sum of money that somewhere, sometime in YOUR life you've reacted in more or less the same way to a decision that was going to cost you a lot more money than you thought it was worth. This is no different.
Lately, we've had a lot of Off-Topic posts and the moderators have discussed sending a reminder about the core mission of this forum for a while, and how we seem to be veering away from it. Here is a reminder taken from NPN's Posting Guidelines:
Rules of Conduct
NPN is strictly dedicated to the art and technique of nature photography and all conversation should pertain directly to it. While on-topic spirited debate is welcome, please keep all conversation congenial, professional and non-judgmental of other's abilities and integrity. Discussion of religion, politics/political activism or any other controversial subject that has little or nothing to do with the art and technique of nature photography is subject to deletion without notice. We suggest that you review the basic rules of Netiquette for additional information on effectively communicating with others over the Internet. If you have any issues or concerns with any aspect of forum activity, please contact the forum moderator(s) using their email contacts at the top of the forum page. You may also contact NPN administration directly at editor@naturephotographers.net.
While software is often an integral part in how we develop our photos these days, the discussion about this controversial topic is becoming less about technique and more a clash of personal opinions. The moderators encourage discussion about the possible pros and cons of Adobe's product plans from a photography workflow standpoint, but we will NOT tolerate personal attacks. Please keep your comments civil and respectful of one another. Thank you.
Ron, as the guy who started the thread that led to this one, allow me to say, "You're WAY off base."
Yes, you have the right to express your opinion, and Adobe has the right to run their business any legal way they want. But the thread was never about anyone's rights. It was about how we personally felt about Adobe's decision and how we were going to react to it.
I don't know you, Ron, but I'd be willing to bet a fair sum of money that somewhere, sometime in YOUR life you've reacted in more or less the same way to a decision that was going to cost you a lot more money than you thought it was worth. This is no different.
End quote.
Well Howard, we all have our own views and I never singled anyone out for what their 'feelings' were. I have extra wide shoulders though and have no problem that you have a different opinion from my own. That's what makes for a good discussion.
Not to worry Josh, I don't view what Howard has said as an attack. I purposefully posted in a thread different from the one he started so that no one would get their shorts in a wad. Nice try, huh?:)
Bottom line is really this: If you don't think it's worth it, don't buy it. You are not being forced to buy it. If you shoot for a living it's another expense that is passed on. I shoot for a living and the cost will be passed on as with all things.
I will persevere to always try and remain positive rather than curse the darkness. That's just me and I don't have any expectations of others.
Peace be with you all, now get off the computer to go shoot something worthwhile!
I understand there are some members for whom PP software, in whatever form, is just "a cost of doing business." Perhaps I have the wrong impression that a majority of the members, like myself, aren't shooting and post-processing for a living. For us amateurs, photography is an awfully expensive means of expressing our creative urges in order to maintain a tenuous hold on our sanity in an all too often increasingly insane world. For that reason, we really resent anyone's decision to make it a lot more expensive than it already is.
I suppose it might be too much to expect some pros to appreciate the POV of the amateurs, but it does occur to me that in the (unlikely?) event the groundswell of negative reaction to this decision causes Adobe to abandon it, then the pros will benefit as much as the amateurs.