It really is a shame that almost all images on the Avian critique forum are struggling to get double digit comments before they fall off the first page. Please remember, this is a place to learn, and it is hard to learn when more people don't provide helpful comments. Is it really that hard to comment on 3 rows (that's 12 whole images) each time you post an image? Some will say, well I am just not good enough to comment on other's work. You don't have to be a pro to know what you like and don't like in an image. Let's get some dialog going among more of the active posters.
Sure hope to see more comments on more images in the future.
When looking at my older photos - double digits was the norm. Nowadays, even with really compelling images it's a struggle to get to ten. I'll admit it's discouraged me from posting more regularly which is part of the cycle of course
Unfortunately you are very right Ron and we see this trend not only in Avian, but on the entire NPN site. As a long time member and moderator who has learned so much over the years from NPN, I find this very regretful.
I think that if NPN were on the iPad and iPhone as an app comments would grow exponentially. Offer it free, as on the web, then yearly subscription to those who want to leave comments. When I worked for Canon, many years ago, I would spend all my breaks and free time on NPN. I would tell all my customers about it.
Being a Christian, it's like being able to give little blessings every day. Love your photo, wow! That's great, nice shot... happy face etc... I admit that I too am taken over by my iPad apps. NPN needs an app, then we can blow them away.
Colleen, I agree. NPN needs to upgrade on some fronts. Mobile apps and also allowing people when they post an image to a gallery to send a link to their Facebook page. I will not post my images directly to my Facebook page, but will post links to them from other places I post. You should suggest, as other should, to Jim, that we see these upgrade implemented soon.
I strongly agree. I don't shoot a lot of birds, can't afford the big glass, but it is true that comments are down on all of the galleries. One thing I have appreciated about NPN is that people would take the time to tell me ways I could improve my images. They would comment and tell me why they liked the image or what was a distraction in the image or what could make it better. That doesn't happen so much any more. I just went through quite a few images on several galleries and found some that had more posts then comments and many that had only 2 comments per post. I have tried to comment on at least five images every time I post. I also take the five right after I post, no matter who they are or what they are. I also have learned so much here and appreciate very much those who take the time to share their opinions of my images. I like being stroked a bit when people like my images and it makes me want to shot more, but I also like the kind criticism that helps me improve my images.
Absolutely agree, I subscribed here to learn from my good and bad shots, not to showoff, although confirmation of a nice capture is pleasing. I have been a subscriber for only a short time and learn from most comments to other as well as my photos.
Maybe a mechanism that doesn't let you post a photo UNTIL you've entered at least 5 comments on other photos. It shouldn't have to be this way, but we've been dealing with this for quite a while now.
Charlie, I mentioned this idea in a post awhile back. The thought would be the person posts the image in a gallery or even in a forum, but it does not appear until after the person has made at least 5 comments in ANY gallery. The comments would be post dated and time stamped after the image was queued. Only after the 5 comments the image would emerge in the chosen posted gallery.
The downside is it would garner the ; "nice shot" comments just to meet the criteria.
Great minds think alike. Even "nice shot" is better than no comment at all, and I think that at least the act of commenting will bring those people around to eventually learn the art of commenting. Plus, I think those that just post "nice shot" continuously will be in the spotlight as a person that needs to learn how to comment. We all give nice shot comments once in a while because the photographer has been at it a long time and the photo shows that they know what they're doing. Anyway, I'm off to go take some pictures..... The desert is heating up and the Bats are out to play.
Good bat hunting, or I should say photographing them.
A few years ago the bats had me pinned down in my truck out at JTNP one morning. They could dodge the truck and windows, but they could not radar sense the radio antenna on the truck. So, once in awhile I'd hear a "twang" and see the antenna flutter a bit. Thankfully none seem to have been injured at all.
I certainly agree about wanting to see more comments. However, it works both ways. I would like to see more info about the photos. Not just the tech info, and I hesitate commenting on photos that do not have the tech info, but some of the why, when and how the image was made. As well as where! Also, not every photo needs to be a prize winter, IMHO. I do not need to see tack sharp bird photos one after the other, without the story behind the image. The ease or difficulty in getting within photo range, the techniques used to get the photo. And, for me anyway don't overwhelm me with processing jargon, please! I must add that I have learned a lot after joining NPN, and take satisfaction in receiving a WP, or suggestions that actually show me how to improve. For example, the mt. goat photo I recently posted and failed to sharpen. Comments pointed this out, and I was able to sharpen and re-post the photo and received positive comments on the re-post. Anyway, my 2 cents worth.
I haven't posted much here the last couple years, and the lack of comments was definitely been a contributing factor in my posting less. Ironically, it wasn't that my own images weren't getting comments (I think they stayed in roughly the same range), it was more that it was disappointing to see how few comments other images were getting and how many people had very low comment-post ratios... I got to the point where whenever I commented on an image where the poster had a ratio that was far less than the 5-1 suggested (which is a very low bar to begin with), I would specifically (and using positive language) urge them to comment more. Not sure it did any good.
I post landscape work from time to time, I'm not a birder, but the absolute #1 reason why I'm not enthusiastic about posting images anymore is the size restriction, it's just too small for 2013 (stay with me, this leads up to replies in forums). That 200KB limit takes a lot of data destruction to meet, and you end up with a postage stamp sized image. For a bird close-up I think you can get away with it, but trying to view a canyon shot made at 14mm in a tiny format kills the whole thing. A few years ago, 1024x768 was the norm so a small 200K image sized at 640x480 was nice. Now a lot of folks have much bigger monitors (mine is 2560x1600, 30") and those thumbnail shots don't cut it. But even MORESO, we have iPads and Droid tablets with 264dpi screens and approx 2000x1500 resolution, so the same issue exists where our initial uploads are T-I-N-Y. An iPad NPN app won't do a bit of good if the "standard" image size restriction doesn't increase. The "Larger Version" option is a nice added feature, and EVERY TIME I post a larger version the replies have been "Ah, now that I see it larger, it really works". But the big problem there is you have to write a plea for people to view it larger, and not everyone does. Let's face it, our society now dictates that we see the initial impact in the first 2 seconds or that's it. I know, I know, it isn't ideal, but that's just how it is today, especially as younger members arrive.
OK, now that my rant is over, reality says that bandwidth and storage are not cheap, and I know that Jim & Donna have probably agonized over this to the point of loss of sleep, and a simple look around in the site will show that they have dumped years of time and effort into all of this, so it's important that is never forgotten, and that I'm not bashing them. Web resources (bandwith and storage mostly) are a constant battle and huge expense, so my point is maybe to re-evaluate the situation now that the viedwing of images is changing at the speed of light DUE to hi-res devices. One idea was to nix the Larger Version, give us the ability to upload up to 720px vertical with a 700KB restriction, and see if the existing smaller + larger model ends up being equal to a 700KB/1280x720 model as far as bandwidth and storage cost over time (with the image placeholder in the webpage set to auto-size for those with smaller resolutions). Besides people now seeing existing shots now larger and with more impact in a web environment that they are already used to, the standard image increase would enable the uploads from this point on to be in enough resolution to look great on today's hi-res devices. That's crucial, otherwise images will either be small, or stretch and pixelated if a Droid or iOS app was created. Doing "Save For Web" at 1280x720 (or whatever horizontal lands at with 720 vertical) looks superb on iSomethings and Galaxy/Nexus/Whatevers. Point is, the NPN images need to be resolution compliant as soon as possible now that the tidal wave of new hi-res devices has begun. And the perk of that is that we see our uploads in a bigger "Ooo Ahh" display format, and it will, IMO, be a huge needed shot in the arm for people to POST which will lead to more responses.
Just some thoughts! I'm fine with disagreeing opinions, that's how we sort stuff out, lol.
As a newish user I wish that more posters would take the time to go back and respond to every question and suggestion commenters provide to their image post. That the critique step was more of a conversation/discussion than the current default, which seems more of a one-way many-to-one response. It's disappointing to try and learn by posting questions or suggestions about an image that get no response, it has made commenting less interesting to me.
I wish that it sbowed on the thubnail wbat rhat poster's comment/post ratio is so I would not have to waste time calling up the image. Sorry but I refuse to comment on someone's image when they have a poor ratio, and I wizh I could easily tell them that.
As a newish user I wish that more posters would take the time to go back and respond to every question and suggestion commenters provide to their image post. That the critique step was more of a conversation/discussion than the current default, which seems more of a one-way many-to-one response. It's disappointing to try and learn by posting questions or suggestions about an image that get no response, it has made commenting less interesting to me.
- Jeff Lewis
A good suggestion but one that requires some care. It is very easy to come off as overly defensive of critical comments so many of us have learned over time that it is often best to not respond to them. But I do try to answer actual questions that show up in comments. This is a good reminder to follow up on them.
Another comment about this topic. I will look to see if someone is commenting regularly. Several times they will have a good comment ratio, but I wonder who they commented on, because they had never commented on any of my images even though they had just posted an image one or two after I did. I am just thinking out loud and don't know if this comment is right or not but I wonder if some people only comment on images that are obviously good so they do not have to make any real constructive comments on and image that needs some commenting. From my own personal experience. I will post an image that is not an in your face scenic of mountains, etc. I will get one or two comments that are very positive, but very few people stop to look at it. If the image is a good quality image, but not the type of subject matter that people are interested in then I would like to know that also.
Discussion
18 repliesSure hope to see more comments on more images in the future.
Being a Christian, it's like being able to give little blessings every day. Love your photo, wow! That's great, nice shot... happy face etc... I admit that I too am taken over by my iPad apps. NPN needs an app, then we can blow them away.
The downside is it would garner the ; "nice shot" comments just to meet the criteria.
Good bat hunting, or I should say photographing them.
A few years ago the bats had me pinned down in my truck out at JTNP one morning. They could dodge the truck and windows, but they could not radar sense the radio antenna on the truck. So, once in awhile I'd hear a "twang" and see the antenna flutter a bit. Thankfully none seem to have been injured at all.
I haven't posted much here the last couple years, and the lack of comments was definitely been a contributing factor in my posting less. Ironically, it wasn't that my own images weren't getting comments (I think they stayed in roughly the same range), it was more that it was disappointing to see how few comments other images were getting and how many people had very low comment-post ratios... I got to the point where whenever I commented on an image where the poster had a ratio that was far less than the 5-1 suggested (which is a very low bar to begin with), I would specifically (and using positive language) urge them to comment more. Not sure it did any good.
OK, now that my rant is over, reality says that bandwidth and storage are not cheap, and I know that Jim & Donna have probably agonized over this to the point of loss of sleep, and a simple look around in the site will show that they have dumped years of time and effort into all of this, so it's important that is never forgotten, and that I'm not bashing them. Web resources (bandwith and storage mostly) are a constant battle and huge expense, so my point is maybe to re-evaluate the situation now that the viedwing of images is changing at the speed of light DUE to hi-res devices. One idea was to nix the Larger Version, give us the ability to upload up to 720px vertical with a 700KB restriction, and see if the existing smaller + larger model ends up being equal to a 700KB/1280x720 model as far as bandwidth and storage cost over time (with the image placeholder in the webpage set to auto-size for those with smaller resolutions). Besides people now seeing existing shots now larger and with more impact in a web environment that they are already used to, the standard image increase would enable the uploads from this point on to be in enough resolution to look great on today's hi-res devices. That's crucial, otherwise images will either be small, or stretch and pixelated if a Droid or iOS app was created. Doing "Save For Web" at 1280x720 (or whatever horizontal lands at with 720 vertical) looks superb on iSomethings and Galaxy/Nexus/Whatevers. Point is, the NPN images need to be resolution compliant as soon as possible now that the tidal wave of new hi-res devices has begun. And the perk of that is that we see our uploads in a bigger "Ooo Ahh" display format, and it will, IMO, be a huge needed shot in the arm for people to POST which will lead to more responses.
Just some thoughts! I'm fine with disagreeing opinions, that's how we sort stuff out, lol.
A good suggestion but one that requires some care. It is very easy to come off as overly defensive of critical comments so many of us have learned over time that it is often best to not respond to them. But I do try to answer actual questions that show up in comments. This is a good reminder to follow up on them.