I’m still using PS CS3 on an iMac 2.33 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo with 4 GB or RAM (the max) and OS X 10.6.8 Snow Leopard. I’m considering buying LR4 to use along with PS3 on this iMac. This is the first iMac that supports 64 bit applications so technically LR4 will run although I don’t know what performance to expect.
My current work flow starts with dragging a NEF file from a folder to the PS3 badge in the iMac dock; this opens Adobe Camera Raw where I make my white balance adjustments and tweak the histogram. I then export the image to PS3 for all further adjustments (typically levels, saturation, and curves via layers).
I don’t need a later version of Photoshop (especially at the current price and their business model of rent, not own), but am interested in some of the new features in ACR (and the potential to work with newer cameras not supported by PS3's version of ACR). I can get Lightroom 4 for $70 at the moment and wonder if that makes sense. I’d use it initially just for the raw conversion and then pass the output file to PS3 for fine tuning via layers and masking.
Having never used Lightroom before I’ve got questions for those who have:
1 how easy it is to export directly to PS3 from LT4? Obviously, I’m not using a current version of PS and will not upgrade.
2 is LT4 married to the catalog function? All my raw files reside on external Firewire drives. I do not want to import my existing files to some LT controlled file system but want to maintain my existing file structure on the external drives. I'd like to continue to just drag a raw file to the Dock and the LT4 icon.
3 does LT4 use the catalog to store adjustment data about each image it converts from raw? Or is this info stored in a “Sidecar” file like PS?
4 does LT4 use a layer structure? If I decide to do more of the post processing in LT4 instead of PS3 is it done with layers and masks? Is it non destructive?
The deal price is good for only a few days so please respond quickly so I can make an informed decision.
I'm still getting into LR4, but can answer somewhat, pending clarification from those more experienced:
1) very easy, plus lots of configurable options on how exactly you want it to work
2) yes, catalog is integral but all files can stay where they are on import. The drag-and-drop functionality is a bit more annoying than in PS, as it'll pop up the "import" dialog for you to interact with before you can get to editing the photo, as in you can't work on the photo until it's imported into your catalog.
3) yes, all adjustments are stored in the catalog, not a sidecar and the original file is not touched
4) no layers in LR, a minimal version of masking is used for some features, editing is non-destructive
Richard - I know you're short on time, but you could try down-loading LR4 as a trial, and seeing how it works for you. I know when I demo'ed it, opening files up in any other program with the RAW changes applied was very easy and configurable - I opened them in PS Elements at the time. But I think that was when LR2 was brand new.
Richard, if you add LR to your workflow and use it as it was designed, your workflow will permanently change, which may be a good thing, since asset management is an important part of LR, and it does it very efficiently. It is also an excellent RAW converter, and will replace ACR as it is the same as ACR but in a easier to use interface.
There is no support for CS3 anymore, nor do you have some of the enhanced masking and content aware tools that are part of CS6, not to mention support for 64 bit processing, and access to a larger memory space that comes with that. While your current setup may fill your needs today, if you get a new camera, you may not be able to use older software to process it.
LR also is extremely configurable, with presets for about any operation that might be repeated, making it extremely fast and efficient.
The first time you use LR it will find your files, identify them in a catalog, leaving them where you have them. However, you will be able to find any file, using keywords, creation date, camera and/or lens used, etc much faster than your current setup. If you place your catalog on the external drive that has your files, then your files will be portable to any machine that is running the LR version used to create the catalog. LR will be used for all file management from this point forward.
Once you understand the application's intent, it will simplify things for you. A typical workflow will be - either capture (tethered) or copy files from a storage device or camera onto your hard drive using LR Import - this will also add the files to the catalog. At this point you can do a considerable amount of image correction, similar to what you can do in ACR. While in LR, you have the option to export an image to JPG, DNG, TIFF, or you can edit your raw file as a 16 bit TIFF file in Photoshop. Using the Edit In command will create the TIFF, add it to the catalog, and open Photoshop with a single click.
My suggestion is to get LR 4 - you will end up using it at some point and you will be glad you got it for the right price. It will take a little getting used to at first, but once you start using it, you will kick yourself for waiting so long.
One more piece of info for you Richard.
Based on what i have learned as a newcomer to Lightroom.
As far as I can tell, Lightroom is intended to work with Photoshop.
When you have finished working with your file in Lightroom you do not save it, you export it . When you do this it automatically opens Photoshop with your file opened and ready to work with.
I have to say the library/catalog functions of Lightroom irritate the crap out of me but the develop module is good and can be further enhanced by using the NIK plugins.
Posted by Garry Revesz on May 29, 2013 at 10:22 AM
I ditto Gene's comments. I have been using LR since it first came out years ago and could not manage my tens of thousands of images without it today. I am currently running both LR4 and LR5 (beta) and the product just keeps getting better and every iteration includes new functionality and improvements on older ones. The very cool thing is that the functionality in LR mirrors the needs of improving workflow from capture to output, including very powerful editing tools along the way. It is not, and should not be CS, that is not it's purpose. CS is designed for serious one-of image editing that you may spent an hour or day working on. LR on the other hand, provides the tools to move your workflow along but still give you an amazing array of image editing tools that you can apply to a series of images all at once, for example.
And like Gene mentioned, you can run LR on several different machines, and if you have your images on a portable HD, all you have to do is plug it into the machine you're using and LR will find the catalogue and the files automatically. It will run seamlessly like once you are aware that LR is path sensitive. So name your hard drives exactly the same with the same path and LR will find it and open automatically without asking you which catalogue you want to open. I do it that way with all my internal and external drives, including backup drives. For example, I might name my primary external drive < Lightroom_Cat4 > and a backup external drive < Lightroom_Cat4_BU >. Then if the primary drive decides to die one day, all I have to do is rename a backup drive by simply removing the < _BU > and it instantly becomes a primary drive and I am up and running in literally seconds and have not lost one pixel of data, and all my changes and everything is intact. The secret of course, is making sure you religiously do your backups.
I also convert all my images to DNG to eliminate the sidecar file, some I also embed the original RAW file, mostly I do not, I have not found a need for it, but the original RAW data is never touched and all your changes in the LR catalogue.
I could go on but I think you get the idea. I could not do half of what I do without LR.
Garry Revesz
Toronto
Posted by Garry Revesz on May 29, 2013 at 10:32 AM
I just posted my comment and realized that the posting just dropped off some hard drive names I included so below I'll re-post just that section.
" For example, I might name my primary external drive 'Lightroom_Cat4' and a backup external drive 'Lightroom_Cat4_BU'. Then if the primary drive decides to die one day, all I have to do is rename a backup drive by simply removing the '_BU' and it instantly becomes a primary drive."
I guess the blog doesn't like certain symbols and will not print them.
A critical thing to double check is whether or not LR4 will actually work with PS3. The camera raw version that LR4 uses is now 7.x and mine constantly warns me when I export images to CS5 (and camera raw version 6.x). The interaction between the two programs is definitely worth checking by installing test version of LR4 before you buy because the version of camera raw in PS3 probably won't support some of the stuff in LR4.
When you have finished working with your file in Lightroom you do not save it, you export it . When you do this it automatically opens Photoshop with your file opened and ready to work with.
Using the term Export is a bit confusing, since there is an export function designed to "export" to a different file format, e-mail, etc.
The workflow is to process an image in the Develop module of LR (RAW processing). Then use the Photo / Edit In / menu (or Cmd / Cntrl E) to open the file with the Lightroom adjustments being passed to Photoshop. When the work is complete in Photoshop, simply do a File / Save (NOT Save As). The processed PSD or TIFF (depending on preferences) will be saved in the directory where the original RAW file is stored. The default is also to create a stack of the processed PSD and the RAW file. It's really that simple.
I've read several comments above about the catalog and how files are managed. When I teach Lightroom, I use this analogy. The LR catalog is just like the old 3x5 card catalog in the library of yesteryear. It contains the metadata about the books on the shelf (i.e. the files on disk). If you simply use LR to do all of your data management (and it can do ALL of it), then the catalog will stay in sync and you will find it works very well. People get in trouble because they revert to old habits of moving, renaming, deleting, adding files to some directory outside of LR. Well if you went to the library and moved a book from shelf A to shelf B and did not manually then update the card catalog, the catalog will not be accurate and will not be able to tell you where the book is. Moral of the story is very simple. Do ALL of your data management in LR and life will be just fine.
You can have your images anywhere you want (physically). When you first start LR, a catalog will be created for you if you don't have one. Your first task is to import images into the LR catalog. If you have the files where you want them physically, then choose the 'ADD' option in the LR import dialog. The files will remain where they are, and LR will build all of the catalog entries for them. If you are importing from a memory card, then you simply choose the COPY option in the import dialog box and direct LR to store them where you specify.
I think you are going to find it frustrating working with LR4 and PS CS3 since the Develop module in LR4 is several versions ahead of ACR in PS. When an image is processed in LR Develop a set of RAW processing instructions is created and stored in the catalog (by default - you can choose to use XMP files). When that file is passed from LR to PS, the instructions are passed along with it. CS3's ACR is not going to recognize instructions from newer versions of RAW processing. You can avoid this by creating a copy in LR with the LR adjustments applied, and then editing that file in CS3. Not optimal, but it works. If I were you, I'd seriously consider upgrading to CS6 to work with LR4 and the upcoming LR5. Your choice.
I believe LR is the top data management software on the market today. There are other good choices, but for my needs LR is an easy choice. Hope that rambling helped some. Happy to help offline if needed.
To clarify, Lightroom is an asset manager with some robust raw conversion capability. It is intended to be the first application that is used to review and convert raw images into the format of your choice. While exporting is one way to open an image in another application, LR gives you the option to "edit in" where you can identify any number of exe files that will then come up in a menu. Using this option, you can create an editable copy (I use TIFF as a file type, and Photoshop, DXO, Nik, Photomatix Pro as application choices to open the image) which will launch the editor of your choice AND add the copy to your catalog. Once you have a TIFF or other format, it really doesn't matter what version of Photoshop you are using. This only matters when you use Adobe-proprietary file types, and/or if you decide to use the XMP file in your export. In this case the versions must be able to work with one another as Keith has indicated.
Discussion
11 repliesMy current work flow starts with dragging a NEF file from a folder to the PS3 badge in the iMac dock; this opens Adobe Camera Raw where I make my white balance adjustments and tweak the histogram. I then export the image to PS3 for all further adjustments (typically levels, saturation, and curves via layers).
I don’t need a later version of Photoshop (especially at the current price and their business model of rent, not own), but am interested in some of the new features in ACR (and the potential to work with newer cameras not supported by PS3's version of ACR). I can get Lightroom 4 for $70 at the moment and wonder if that makes sense. I’d use it initially just for the raw conversion and then pass the output file to PS3 for fine tuning via layers and masking.
Having never used Lightroom before I’ve got questions for those who have:
1 how easy it is to export directly to PS3 from LT4? Obviously, I’m not using a current version of PS and will not upgrade.
2 is LT4 married to the catalog function? All my raw files reside on external Firewire drives. I do not want to import my existing files to some LT controlled file system but want to maintain my existing file structure on the external drives. I'd like to continue to just drag a raw file to the Dock and the LT4 icon.
3 does LT4 use the catalog to store adjustment data about each image it converts from raw? Or is this info stored in a “Sidecar” file like PS?
4 does LT4 use a layer structure? If I decide to do more of the post processing in LT4 instead of PS3 is it done with layers and masks? Is it non destructive?
The deal price is good for only a few days so please respond quickly so I can make an informed decision.
1) very easy, plus lots of configurable options on how exactly you want it to work
2) yes, catalog is integral but all files can stay where they are on import. The drag-and-drop functionality is a bit more annoying than in PS, as it'll pop up the "import" dialog for you to interact with before you can get to editing the photo, as in you can't work on the photo until it's imported into your catalog.
3) yes, all adjustments are stored in the catalog, not a sidecar and the original file is not touched
4) no layers in LR, a minimal version of masking is used for some features, editing is non-destructive
There is no support for CS3 anymore, nor do you have some of the enhanced masking and content aware tools that are part of CS6, not to mention support for 64 bit processing, and access to a larger memory space that comes with that. While your current setup may fill your needs today, if you get a new camera, you may not be able to use older software to process it.
LR also is extremely configurable, with presets for about any operation that might be repeated, making it extremely fast and efficient.
The first time you use LR it will find your files, identify them in a catalog, leaving them where you have them. However, you will be able to find any file, using keywords, creation date, camera and/or lens used, etc much faster than your current setup. If you place your catalog on the external drive that has your files, then your files will be portable to any machine that is running the LR version used to create the catalog. LR will be used for all file management from this point forward.
Once you understand the application's intent, it will simplify things for you. A typical workflow will be - either capture (tethered) or copy files from a storage device or camera onto your hard drive using LR Import - this will also add the files to the catalog. At this point you can do a considerable amount of image correction, similar to what you can do in ACR. While in LR, you have the option to export an image to JPG, DNG, TIFF, or you can edit your raw file as a 16 bit TIFF file in Photoshop. Using the Edit In command will create the TIFF, add it to the catalog, and open Photoshop with a single click.
My suggestion is to get LR 4 - you will end up using it at some point and you will be glad you got it for the right price. It will take a little getting used to at first, but once you start using it, you will kick yourself for waiting so long.
Based on what i have learned as a newcomer to Lightroom.
As far as I can tell, Lightroom is intended to work with Photoshop.
When you have finished working with your file in Lightroom you do not save it, you export it . When you do this it automatically opens Photoshop with your file opened and ready to work with.
I have to say the library/catalog functions of Lightroom irritate the crap out of me but the develop module is good and can be further enhanced by using the NIK plugins.
And like Gene mentioned, you can run LR on several different machines, and if you have your images on a portable HD, all you have to do is plug it into the machine you're using and LR will find the catalogue and the files automatically. It will run seamlessly like once you are aware that LR is path sensitive. So name your hard drives exactly the same with the same path and LR will find it and open automatically without asking you which catalogue you want to open. I do it that way with all my internal and external drives, including backup drives. For example, I might name my primary external drive < Lightroom_Cat4 > and a backup external drive < Lightroom_Cat4_BU >. Then if the primary drive decides to die one day, all I have to do is rename a backup drive by simply removing the < _BU > and it instantly becomes a primary drive and I am up and running in literally seconds and have not lost one pixel of data, and all my changes and everything is intact. The secret of course, is making sure you religiously do your backups.
I also convert all my images to DNG to eliminate the sidecar file, some I also embed the original RAW file, mostly I do not, I have not found a need for it, but the original RAW data is never touched and all your changes in the LR catalogue.
I could go on but I think you get the idea. I could not do half of what I do without LR.
Garry Revesz
Toronto
" For example, I might name my primary external drive 'Lightroom_Cat4' and a backup external drive 'Lightroom_Cat4_BU'. Then if the primary drive decides to die one day, all I have to do is rename a backup drive by simply removing the '_BU' and it instantly becomes a primary drive."
I guess the blog doesn't like certain symbols and will not print them.
Hope that helps
Garry
A critical thing to double check is whether or not LR4 will actually work with PS3. The camera raw version that LR4 uses is now 7.x and mine constantly warns me when I export images to CS5 (and camera raw version 6.x). The interaction between the two programs is definitely worth checking by installing test version of LR4 before you buy because the version of camera raw in PS3 probably won't support some of the stuff in LR4.
Mark
Using the term Export is a bit confusing, since there is an export function designed to "export" to a different file format, e-mail, etc.
The workflow is to process an image in the Develop module of LR (RAW processing). Then use the Photo / Edit In / menu (or Cmd / Cntrl E) to open the file with the Lightroom adjustments being passed to Photoshop. When the work is complete in Photoshop, simply do a File / Save (NOT Save As). The processed PSD or TIFF (depending on preferences) will be saved in the directory where the original RAW file is stored. The default is also to create a stack of the processed PSD and the RAW file. It's really that simple.
I've read several comments above about the catalog and how files are managed. When I teach Lightroom, I use this analogy. The LR catalog is just like the old 3x5 card catalog in the library of yesteryear. It contains the metadata about the books on the shelf (i.e. the files on disk). If you simply use LR to do all of your data management (and it can do ALL of it), then the catalog will stay in sync and you will find it works very well. People get in trouble because they revert to old habits of moving, renaming, deleting, adding files to some directory outside of LR. Well if you went to the library and moved a book from shelf A to shelf B and did not manually then update the card catalog, the catalog will not be accurate and will not be able to tell you where the book is. Moral of the story is very simple. Do ALL of your data management in LR and life will be just fine.
You can have your images anywhere you want (physically). When you first start LR, a catalog will be created for you if you don't have one. Your first task is to import images into the LR catalog. If you have the files where you want them physically, then choose the 'ADD' option in the LR import dialog. The files will remain where they are, and LR will build all of the catalog entries for them. If you are importing from a memory card, then you simply choose the COPY option in the import dialog box and direct LR to store them where you specify.
I think you are going to find it frustrating working with LR4 and PS CS3 since the Develop module in LR4 is several versions ahead of ACR in PS. When an image is processed in LR Develop a set of RAW processing instructions is created and stored in the catalog (by default - you can choose to use XMP files). When that file is passed from LR to PS, the instructions are passed along with it. CS3's ACR is not going to recognize instructions from newer versions of RAW processing. You can avoid this by creating a copy in LR with the LR adjustments applied, and then editing that file in CS3. Not optimal, but it works. If I were you, I'd seriously consider upgrading to CS6 to work with LR4 and the upcoming LR5. Your choice.
I believe LR is the top data management software on the market today. There are other good choices, but for my needs LR is an easy choice. Hope that rambling helped some. Happy to help offline if needed.