Posted by Jim Erhardt on August 18, 2013 at 7:46 AM
As you may be aware, we installed a new feature a few weeks ago that allow any viewer (member or non-member) to share a link to that photo on social media sites. The new buttons can be seen in the Galleries, on the main view page under the photo.
One of the issues the addition has caused is that some members cannot hold their log-in to the site. Though we seem to have resolved the issue with most of our members, a few still have to log in every time they visit the site. We are currently working with the providers of the service (we offered to use NPN as a beta site) to get the issue resolved.
In the mean time, I have been conducting some informal testing to see if the SM buttons provide increased views for the photos that are shared (via link) on SM sites. I have a personal Facebook page that I have placed a few links on and then watched the view counts here on NPN for that photo. Based on this informal testing, it appears that the buttons do indeed significantly increase views of the photo, and by extension, exposure of the member's work.
Take a look in the POP Gallery - I shared a link to Steve Zimic's 5 Pointz photo and within 24 hours, the views had increased quite noticeably. The way the buttons are currently configured, there are no counters under them so we cannot see how many shares each photo has, but I believe counters are an option that we can try.
Your Feedback
If you have a social media site, I encourage you to try the buttons and see how they work. Let us know if you have any ideas for improvement and most importantly, let us know if you think this is a feature worth retaining and working out the bugs.
While I do not use social media, it would appear from your informal testing that the link sharing buttons will be worthwhile once the log-in issues are resolved.
--P
Posted by Jeff Lewis on August 18, 2013 at 12:24 PM
Jim, just to kibitz on the login problem, one possibility based on the moving parts is that since you guys are using a cookie named "id", your code on your site, to find the login credentials, is just searching for a substring in a cookie name of "id", and picking up the value in the new "__jjid" cookie by mistake, now that there are two cookies with "id" in the name.
So the problem started with the sharing code, but very possibly isn't actually in their code, but is a side effect caused on your side. In which case you need to change your code to make sure you're matching the entire cookie name to "id" before using the value for login credentials. And/or rename your authentication cookie to "npnid" or something less generic. Plus you're resetting your persistent cookie on every access, which is why the correct value is getting overwritten.
Jeff
Posted by Mia McPherson on August 18, 2013 at 12:32 PM
Jim,
I don't see the icons on Internet Explorer 10 as a logged in member, I do see them in Safari though.
* I logged out of NPN and looked for the social icons in IE 10 and still don't see them.
But I do stay logged in so I am not having that issue
Posted by Eva McDermott on August 18, 2013 at 12:57 PM
Hi Jim - Count me as one needing to re-log into NPN every time now. I am using Firefox.
Jim, although not a user of or understanding overall of the links being needed, I do not seem to have any issues on the Firefox release I have. Beyond the first day of upgrade log in issues all is well for my browser.
I also have some log-in issues at times, but it's been no big deal.
But to Jim's question of the usefulness of these new buttons. Personally, I did use it once to send a link via Facebook to my children so they could see the picture I posted of "Fun at the beach" in the POP gallery. I thought they might enjoy seeing the posting and comments even though they do have a copy of the picture. It worked great! Other than that, I'm not sure when I would use it. Usually if I want to show a picture on Facebook, I will just post the photo in Facebook. However, as with many things, if we have this capability available, we may start to use it more and more. And if does improve traffic and visibility, that is also a great plus! I'd vote to let them stay. . .unless it continues to wreak havoc on the NPN site.
Posted by Roger Kirchen on August 18, 2013 at 3:53 PM
Jim,
Thank you for your clear description of the background related to the non-persistent login issue. Please count me in: I now have to log in just about every time. While this is annoying for now, I am confident that a solution will be found. Or I will become successful in memorizing my own password ;-)
I think, though, that rather than simply being the cause of a -hopefully temporary- login annoyance, the SM buttons as configured now may well hold the potential of triggering a fundamental change in the NPN model.
I immensely value -as do other photographer, I am sure- the insightful and honest critiques and comments offered by the very talented photographers at NPN. These critiques, on my own photos and on photos of other photographers, have truly helped me grow as a photographer (I like to think so) and I am looking forward to continue on this journey. NPN offers a comfort zone to its members to request and obtain thoughtful critiques on our photographs (e.g. does this work?, what about another crop?, what do you think?, etc.) and often a repost is created based on the feedback.
In my experience, the original post is often not the finished photograph that one would like to place and promote in a public web gallery or in SM. In fact, in many cases the photographer may well not want to do so at all, but may "only" want to obtain honest feedback. The NPN model is unique in this I believe, and this forms in my view the strength and foundation of NPN. From my perspective, this is very different from, and arguably more valuable than a high view count from outside of NPN.
I wonder how the the new model with SM buttons (accessible to members and non-members, if I understand correctly) will integrate with the the original model. Am I correct in understanding that anyone could post a link to any photo to any of the SM in question? If so, will this enhance the NPN model, or will it detract from it? Personally, I think it might well detract from my use of the "critique and comment" function at NPN. If needed, I could always create a personal display web site for visibility and I could initiate SM postings directly if so wanted.
Perhaps, an alternative model might be to make the SM buttons only accessible to the member photographer in question. Every member photographer -the copyright holder- could then decide what photo links to place on SM, on which SM sites to place them, control the propagation of their photos, etc.
Or perhaps make them available to all, as currently, my with access (and visibility) configured by the member as a global option or as a per photo option.
In any case, the issue remains of the fate of photo links on SM when a photo is deleted from NPN. I assume this would turn into a broken link, with the potential of many broken links pointing at NPN.
Just my long-winded $0.02.
Best Regards
Roger
Posted by Mia McPherson on August 18, 2013 at 4:13 PM
Thanks Preston! I hadn't realized I was viewing NPN in compatibility mode in IE 10, turned that off and I see the SM icons now. I wish they would move that compatibility icon in IE away from the refresh button. I hit it by accident at times.
Posted by Jim Erhardt on August 18, 2013 at 6:09 PM
Thanks to all for your feedback!
Roger, great points regarding the "NPN model" and I can fully relate to them. On one hand, if we do not embrace the change we see occurring on the Internet, we will eventually become irrelevant to all but who are already members. On the other hand, the steadfastness of what we do and how we operate is a cornerstone that we do not want to undermine. In regards to what happens when a photo is deleted, I assume it will end up as a broken link - this is something I will investigate.
I'm still not certain whether the SM buttons will stay, but in the mean time I will forward the analysis by Jeff and see if we can at least resolve the log-in issue.
Keep the feedback coming!
Posted by Mark Stahlke on August 18, 2013 at 6:38 PM
I think the SM buttons are worthwhile. I, too, am having login (or maybe it's session time-out) issues. For what it's worth, I'm running Firefox 23.0.1 on OSX Lion (10.7.5).
Roger wrote: Perhaps, an alternative model might be to make the SM buttons only accessible to the member photographer in question. Every member photographer -the copyright holder- could then decide what photo links to place on SM, on which SM sites to place them, control the propagation of their photos, etc..
I think this is a really good idea. Not only would it allow better control, it would also be one the "member benefits'.
--P
Posted by Jim DeWitt on August 19, 2013 at 1:57 AM
Jim -
I may have an extreme form of the log-in problem; after about 1.5-2.0 hours, I have to log in again, even if I'm in NPN the whole time.
Mac 10.6.8, Safari 5.1.9 and Firefox 15.0.1.
Posted by Bill Chambers on August 19, 2013 at 11:03 AM
I certainly like the concept of the buttons but I have been one of those affected with log in problems. I'm still fighting that battle both at home and at work. I hope you can find a solution for that issue soon.
Posted by Jim Erhardt on August 20, 2013 at 7:33 AM
Bill, we made some changes as per Jeff Lewis' suggestions - let us know if that resolved the issue for you.
Posted by Lorna Taylor on August 20, 2013 at 7:21 PM
The share button is not something I see myself using in the near future as I don't tweet, FB or even text, I know , I have teens and soon to be teens in the house but I am a girl slow to online change .I'd rather be out taking photos !!
But I think it is a great idea for those on the other forums to direct traffic here to this site.
I am on Flickr quite a bit so a link if it is not too much trouble I would surely use it , pintrest !
On one hand, if we do not embrace the change we see occurring on the Internet, we will eventually become irrelevant to all but who are already members.
True that....and may eventually cause the site to stagnate if not die out. Here are few things to consider for future of NPN
a) Integrated Comments: If you look around you on media sites, personal blogs and others you will see that the comments on a site are now integrated from variety of sources including social media. The idea is the comments from one source is supplemented by others encouraging people to comment more...and to be more relevant in the search engines. Here is an example of how we do it: Tiny Planets Tutorials on Varina's website
b) Visibility: Under the current model the discovery of your photos outside NPN is almost non-existent. Most popular photos of 2012 Editors Pick got 4000+ view. Compare this with the some my most popular photos on just one social media site (G+) in excess of 1+ Million views.
One can argue that you can always share from your website rather then from NPN...True, but how is that going to bring more visibility to NPN? In fact, if every photographer on NPN goes this route (as they are already doing) it will hasten the irrelevancy Jim mentions.
Discussion
17 repliesOne of the issues the addition has caused is that some members cannot hold their log-in to the site. Though we seem to have resolved the issue with most of our members, a few still have to log in every time they visit the site. We are currently working with the providers of the service (we offered to use NPN as a beta site) to get the issue resolved.
In the mean time, I have been conducting some informal testing to see if the SM buttons provide increased views for the photos that are shared (via link) on SM sites. I have a personal Facebook page that I have placed a few links on and then watched the view counts here on NPN for that photo. Based on this informal testing, it appears that the buttons do indeed significantly increase views of the photo, and by extension, exposure of the member's work.
Take a look in the POP Gallery - I shared a link to Steve Zimic's 5 Pointz photo and within 24 hours, the views had increased quite noticeably. The way the buttons are currently configured, there are no counters under them so we cannot see how many shares each photo has, but I believe counters are an option that we can try.
Your Feedback
If you have a social media site, I encourage you to try the buttons and see how they work. Let us know if you have any ideas for improvement and most importantly, let us know if you think this is a feature worth retaining and working out the bugs.
Thanks to all for your input!
While I do not use social media, it would appear from your informal testing that the link sharing buttons will be worthwhile once the log-in issues are resolved.
--P
So the problem started with the sharing code, but very possibly isn't actually in their code, but is a side effect caused on your side. In which case you need to change your code to make sure you're matching the entire cookie name to "id" before using the value for login credentials. And/or rename your authentication cookie to "npnid" or something less generic. Plus you're resetting your persistent cookie on every access, which is why the correct value is getting overwritten.
Jeff
I don't see the icons on Internet Explorer 10 as a logged in member, I do see them in Safari though.
* I logged out of NPN and looked for the social icons in IE 10 and still don't see them.
But I do stay logged in so I am not having that issue
I do see the buttons in FireFox 23.0.1
I do see the buttons in IE 10 running in standard mode.
I do not see the buttons in IE 10 running in 'Compatibility Mode'.
I am not having log in issues.
Weird.
--P
But to Jim's question of the usefulness of these new buttons. Personally, I did use it once to send a link via Facebook to my children so they could see the picture I posted of "Fun at the beach" in the POP gallery. I thought they might enjoy seeing the posting and comments even though they do have a copy of the picture. It worked great! Other than that, I'm not sure when I would use it. Usually if I want to show a picture on Facebook, I will just post the photo in Facebook. However, as with many things, if we have this capability available, we may start to use it more and more. And if does improve traffic and visibility, that is also a great plus! I'd vote to let them stay. . .unless it continues to wreak havoc on the NPN site.
Thank you for your clear description of the background related to the non-persistent login issue. Please count me in: I now have to log in just about every time. While this is annoying for now, I am confident that a solution will be found. Or I will become successful in memorizing my own password ;-)
I think, though, that rather than simply being the cause of a -hopefully temporary- login annoyance, the SM buttons as configured now may well hold the potential of triggering a fundamental change in the NPN model.
I immensely value -as do other photographer, I am sure- the insightful and honest critiques and comments offered by the very talented photographers at NPN. These critiques, on my own photos and on photos of other photographers, have truly helped me grow as a photographer (I like to think so) and I am looking forward to continue on this journey. NPN offers a comfort zone to its members to request and obtain thoughtful critiques on our photographs (e.g. does this work?, what about another crop?, what do you think?, etc.) and often a repost is created based on the feedback.
In my experience, the original post is often not the finished photograph that one would like to place and promote in a public web gallery or in SM. In fact, in many cases the photographer may well not want to do so at all, but may "only" want to obtain honest feedback. The NPN model is unique in this I believe, and this forms in my view the strength and foundation of NPN. From my perspective, this is very different from, and arguably more valuable than a high view count from outside of NPN.
I wonder how the the new model with SM buttons (accessible to members and non-members, if I understand correctly) will integrate with the the original model. Am I correct in understanding that anyone could post a link to any photo to any of the SM in question? If so, will this enhance the NPN model, or will it detract from it? Personally, I think it might well detract from my use of the "critique and comment" function at NPN. If needed, I could always create a personal display web site for visibility and I could initiate SM postings directly if so wanted.
Perhaps, an alternative model might be to make the SM buttons only accessible to the member photographer in question. Every member photographer -the copyright holder- could then decide what photo links to place on SM, on which SM sites to place them, control the propagation of their photos, etc.
Or perhaps make them available to all, as currently, my with access (and visibility) configured by the member as a global option or as a per photo option.
In any case, the issue remains of the fate of photo links on SM when a photo is deleted from NPN. I assume this would turn into a broken link, with the potential of many broken links pointing at NPN.
Just my long-winded $0.02.
Best Regards
Roger
Roger, great points regarding the "NPN model" and I can fully relate to them. On one hand, if we do not embrace the change we see occurring on the Internet, we will eventually become irrelevant to all but who are already members. On the other hand, the steadfastness of what we do and how we operate is a cornerstone that we do not want to undermine. In regards to what happens when a photo is deleted, I assume it will end up as a broken link - this is something I will investigate.
I'm still not certain whether the SM buttons will stay, but in the mean time I will forward the analysis by Jeff and see if we can at least resolve the log-in issue.
Keep the feedback coming!
I think this is a really good idea. Not only would it allow better control, it would also be one the "member benefits'.
--P
I may have an extreme form of the log-in problem; after about 1.5-2.0 hours, I have to log in again, even if I'm in NPN the whole time.
Mac 10.6.8, Safari 5.1.9 and Firefox 15.0.1.
But I think it is a great idea for those on the other forums to direct traffic here to this site.
I am on Flickr quite a bit so a link if it is not too much trouble I would surely use it , pintrest !
True that....and may eventually cause the site to stagnate if not die out. Here are few things to consider for future of NPN
a) Integrated Comments: If you look around you on media sites, personal blogs and others you will see that the comments on a site are now integrated from variety of sources including social media. The idea is the comments from one source is supplemented by others encouraging people to comment more...and to be more relevant in the search engines. Here is an example of how we do it: Tiny Planets Tutorials on Varina's website
b) Visibility: Under the current model the discovery of your photos outside NPN is almost non-existent. Most popular photos of 2012 Editors Pick got 4000+ view. Compare this with the some my most popular photos on just one social media site (G+) in excess of 1+ Million views.
One can argue that you can always share from your website rather then from NPN...True, but how is that going to bring more visibility to NPN? In fact, if every photographer on NPN goes this route (as they are already doing) it will hasten the irrelevancy Jim mentions.