Posted by Mark Seaver on October 11, 2013 at 12:18 PM
We have friends in Montana with a house that they rent for vacation use using VRBO (vacation rental by owner). They've asked me to help redo the pictures (10 - 15) of their house that are included on the web site. Given that the house rents for $215 - $365/night, I'm thinking of a trade for 3-4 nights rental but I'd like to hear other's thoughts on the pricing before I propose a trade.
Posted by Max Waugh on October 11, 2013 at 12:49 PM
Doesn't sound like a bad deal to me, especially since they are friends. It's nice that they were proactive and asked you. I think that's a good sign they'd be willing to trade. We've had photographers contact us about trading interior photos for a two week stay at our VRBO rental (~$3000 value) and it was way too much of a financial hit to seriously consider it, ignoring the fact that our photos were already adequate.
I'd just watch your expenses. If this is a location you have to travel a long ways to reach, then gas, time, etc. should be factored into the compensation you're requesting.
Max
Posted by Lon Overacker on October 11, 2013 at 12:59 PM
Hey Mark,
Couple questions for you. Would you have to travel in order to take the pictures? Have they offered to cover your expenses? Or is this a local trip for you? Did they contact you and say they wanted to hire you? Or asked you if you could do them a favor? These are your friends right and I'm assuming you want to remain friends.... ;-) You of course should be compensated for your time and effort, but if you are also just interested in helping out your friends, you can't really justify charging or trading a huge sum.
If you're like most of us, you would want to do a great job - probably spend at least a half day, inside images, outside, twilght, the grounds maybe? Clearly you would probably capture hundreds of images and then have to weed them down to the 15 or so, maybe 30-50 and let them make the final call. A bit of work will go in to sorting and some basic processing.
I would think some explanation of this would be helpful for them especially if you're asking for money/trade. The option is someone's iPhone..... I'm sure could do a stellar job! So, I'm guessing they think you're pretty good and want a more "professional" job, which of course can't be done with Uncle Joe's iPhone...
Bottom line, if you have to travel, spending at least 2 days away from home and other income, 4 nights in trade would be a minimum, perhaps +expenses. IF this is a local trip, you spend and afternoon/evening and don't have to invest a whole bunch of time, then I think asking for more than 2 nights trade would be too much.
Lot's to consider, but in general a trade like that would probably be a great idea and more likely agreeable by your friends. It's a matter of what you both think is fair. If they think they're getting it for free, the more you should press. If they understand the value they would be getting and willing to pay/trade, the more likely I would give them a break. Hope that makes sense.
Lon
Posted by Mike Ramy on October 11, 2013 at 1:03 PM
Mark,
"Never do Business with Friends or Family" is a golden rule in the business world and should be observed more times than not.
With that said, two of the houses that I rent for my Florida tours have my pictures on the walls. Some of the pictures were donated for good will and/or public relations reasons, some were purchased by the owners of the houses I use and also the neighbors that I have come to know over the many years of staying at these locations.
My suggestion to you is to always keep your dealings separate to avoid the inevitable misunderstandings. If they want your work, sell it to them, invoice them as you would any other customer and have them pay you. If you want to rent the house, then rent it and pay them the rental fees, taxes, and cleaning fee just like any of their regular rental customers. These should be two separate business dealings and not combined as one deal !
Trust me on this one, Mike
Posted by Lon Overacker on October 11, 2013 at 3:48 PM
Mike, I think you raise a slightly different situation. I think Mark is talking about pictures OF the house for use on a website, perhaps a brochure, etc. Sounds to me like you are referring to hanging wall art, photos for decoration, etc. Your points are of course valid, but I think Mark is not talking about hanging photo art, but pictures for advertising and promotion of the house. I could be wrong though...
Lon
Posted by Mark Seaver on October 12, 2013 at 12:12 PM
Thanks for the thoughts, they're all good and sure help me in trying to put this into "context". Max, $3000 strikes me as way to high also. This house is an easy walk from our Montana house, so I'd be doing the photography while I'm in Montana (no extra expenses) and it's not clear that there's any time deadline, so I can do some now, possibly include 3 - 4 Yellowstone/Paradise Valley shots from my files and finish things when we're back next spring. Yes to do what I have in mind (indoor shots with views through the windows, which probably means double exposures and blending) will take a fair amount of work, but it's things that I enjoy and will benefit from. It also sounds like my thoughts on a 3-4 day (almost certainly off season) trade is reasonable.
Posted by Luke Ormand on October 16, 2013 at 12:35 PM
I think what you propose is reasonable - especially considering you are probably staying there when the house would be empty anyway (unless they literally rent it out any day they aren't there). If no one is at the house, they aren't making a dollar - so if you are happy with staying there, they certainly shouldn't balk at your offer. Now, if you wanted to stay on a holiday weekend in prime time, obviously that would be a different story. . .
Discussion
6 repliesI'd just watch your expenses. If this is a location you have to travel a long ways to reach, then gas, time, etc. should be factored into the compensation you're requesting.
Max
Couple questions for you. Would you have to travel in order to take the pictures? Have they offered to cover your expenses? Or is this a local trip for you? Did they contact you and say they wanted to hire you? Or asked you if you could do them a favor? These are your friends right and I'm assuming you want to remain friends.... ;-) You of course should be compensated for your time and effort, but if you are also just interested in helping out your friends, you can't really justify charging or trading a huge sum.
If you're like most of us, you would want to do a great job - probably spend at least a half day, inside images, outside, twilght, the grounds maybe? Clearly you would probably capture hundreds of images and then have to weed them down to the 15 or so, maybe 30-50 and let them make the final call. A bit of work will go in to sorting and some basic processing.
I would think some explanation of this would be helpful for them especially if you're asking for money/trade. The option is someone's iPhone..... I'm sure could do a stellar job! So, I'm guessing they think you're pretty good and want a more "professional" job, which of course can't be done with Uncle Joe's iPhone...
Bottom line, if you have to travel, spending at least 2 days away from home and other income, 4 nights in trade would be a minimum, perhaps +expenses. IF this is a local trip, you spend and afternoon/evening and don't have to invest a whole bunch of time, then I think asking for more than 2 nights trade would be too much.
Lot's to consider, but in general a trade like that would probably be a great idea and more likely agreeable by your friends. It's a matter of what you both think is fair. If they think they're getting it for free, the more you should press. If they understand the value they would be getting and willing to pay/trade, the more likely I would give them a break. Hope that makes sense.
Lon
"Never do Business with Friends or Family" is a golden rule in the business world and should be observed more times than not.
With that said, two of the houses that I rent for my Florida tours have my pictures on the walls. Some of the pictures were donated for good will and/or public relations reasons, some were purchased by the owners of the houses I use and also the neighbors that I have come to know over the many years of staying at these locations.
My suggestion to you is to always keep your dealings separate to avoid the inevitable misunderstandings. If they want your work, sell it to them, invoice them as you would any other customer and have them pay you. If you want to rent the house, then rent it and pay them the rental fees, taxes, and cleaning fee just like any of their regular rental customers. These should be two separate business dealings and not combined as one deal !
Trust me on this one, Mike
Lon