I hope things have been well with each of you! Graduation and starting my summer employment has caused me to be absent from the forum lately. However, I've still been out taking photos. The above photo was taken on Sunday evening (6/22) from the summit of Storm Peak in Rocky Mountain National Park. I was able to witness a wonderful and dramatic sunset from one of the best vantage points we have in the park. It was my first time to photograph from the summit - so I'm happy with my results.
However,to heed the advice of many regarding my often blown-out sunstars - I have begun to experiment with exposure bracketing and blending in Photoshop. I am very unskilled so far. For this photo I used auto exposure bracketing with continuous shooting mode based on original settings I programmed in manual. The result was one photo at ISO 100, f/22, 0.8 sec; one at ISO 100, f/22, 1/5 sec; and one at ISO 100, f/22, 1/20 sec. Due to the wind and shutter release, I had to auto-align my three images in Photoshop. I then created a layer mask on the lightest image, inverted it, and began painting with white to reveal the darker image beneath. I painted almost exclusively in the sky area.
Here's what I don't understand - although the blending did a good job of revealing more detail in the sky, a close zoom reveals a grainy texture. It is so grainy that I cannot blow it up to a large viewing size. I painted many strokes with as little as 10% opacity to as great as 20% to achieve the blending I desired. My flow was 100% and my hardness 0%. Did the excessive paint strokes cause the grainy texture or is it something else? The texture is not evident in the original images.
Thank you to anyone who can help me correct my novice mistake!
Hi Crystal, This is a stunning shot! The blend you have here looks really good at small sizes, though you might consider making the sky a a tad brighter to make it less obvious that it's an HDR. I'm guessing the graininess may be from only having part of a layer masked out and having part of a lower layer showing through. The problem could be from the clouds moving between the exposures, making it impossible to perfectly align the images.
I'd suggest trying to combine the images with just two of the shots - a bottom layer with the 0.8 sec shot.for the land and a top layer with 1/20 secs for the sky. I'm guessing that you have enough dynamic range in the two images to be able to do this, though it's hard to say without seeing the shots. Then, instead of painting, use the Quick Select tool to select just the sky. You can hit Shift+Ctrl+I (Shift+Cmd+I on Mac) to invert the selection to the land. Then, select the mask on the top layer and hit Alt+Backspace (Opt+Delete on Mac) to mask out the land. The blend may not look perfect. If necessary, you can right-click on the mask and select Refine Mask. Adjusting the Smart Radius can sometimes be very helpful. You can then individually adjust the layers with the land and the sky to make the two look good together.
There's also software programs, like HDR Efex Pro, that can do a good job blending images. I haven't used it, but it may encounter some of the same problems with moving clouds. And I think doing it manually can be better, as you learn a lot more that way. There's also some videos by Sean Bagshaw and I think Chillips Phillips that can teach you how to do HDR.
I'd also recommend using a wider f stop for this shot. f22 can create diffraction, which lowers the image quality. It looks like you shot with a wide angle lens which can give you a lot of depth of field with wider apertures (as long as you focus at twice the distance of the closest foreground object). There's a lot of smart phone applications with depth of field calculators that can be useful.
I'm not going to be any help, as I haven't gotten into exposure blending from multiple shots myself. I'm hopeful that you get this dialed in though, because it is a fantastic shot! Beautiful conditions with the clouds above and below, and the light is fantastic. I also like the sunstar a lot. Nice work!
Crystal,
Indeed, the grain issue seems quite odd. Your approach to blending this image is a good one in my humble opinion. If you don't mind answering a few questions, maybe we can find a solution.
When you say the individual images didn't display the grain, is that before or after you aligned them? So, are you saying the images in your stack are not grainy? When painting, did you select anything in the sky or just free handed it? Did you try this more than once? Did you try it without aligning the images just to see if the alignment process was the culprit? Sometimes Photoshop can be quirky and if bizarre issues are occurring, close it down and start again. The way you described your process should just reveal the part of the underlying layer as you intended. The paint strokes should not have caused any issues as I conduct a similar process all the time.
At least at this resolution, the image looks natural and gorgeous. Assuming you didn't clone out any lens flare, I'm amazed how clean it looks. If interested, I ran across a interesting blog post by a fellow named Michael Breitung that discusses shooting into the sun. http://mibreit-photo.com/blog/?p=1144
Can you do a 100% crop on a grainy portion of image and submit it here, so we can get a better idea of what you refer to as grain. When I hear grainy I immediately think noise. I have a feeling your dealing with a noise issue. At f22 at that time if night most digital cameras( but not all) will render grain even at 100 ISO, for long exposures. And since you mostly used your brightest image to work with I'll assume most of your grain is your foreground and clouds? Lastly I agree with Grant, f22 is too small for this scene. I'm thinking f13, then blend in an f22 star.
It's really tough to diagnose your problem without seeing the patient.
If you could post your 3 RAW images converted with all settings at '0' and your original blend on a site that allows you to share large files, then perhaps some of us could attempt a blend and actually see what's causing the problem.
This is a superb image well worth the attempt to get right.
Posted by Monika Chace on June 30, 2014 at 5:55 PM
Crystal,
Here's a different technique for shooting into the sun that you may find useful http://www.michaelfrye.com/landscape-photography-blog/2014/06/20/composing-itself/ . If the graininess is noise, this may be simpler & create less noise (I haven't tried this technique, so can't tell you from experience). John M has a good suggestion as none of us can really see/play with your images to truly be helpful.
Posted by Roger Clark on June 30, 2014 at 11:15 PM
Hello Crystal,
One thing that might result in noise in the combined image is if one works with 8-bit data. Are you working with 8 or 16-bit image files?
Roger
Thanks to all of you! I'll respond to each of your helpful comments as soon as I put the techniques into practice. For now, here's a little more to help you see the problem. Kane, attached is a 100% crop of the grainy portion.
Tough one. Check your camera settings for an activated Noise Reduction action . This looks like a poor in camera NR system vs just shooting the scene and relying later on a better PS or LR noise reduction. To be clear, I can't think of anyone I know that uses in camera NR (outside of star shooting)even with the best cameras available.
Thats a great view of Longs, looks like this one with better conditions. http://www.kaephotography.com/photo/longs-peak-bliss/
Kane,
The problem is not about camera settings, as Crystal said the images were fine before blending. It is the blending operation that is the problem. So we need to know what all the blending settings were. I'm not familiar with the operations she described, but with layers, one has opacity setting and fill setting, then the layer type. What are all those settings, and is it 8 or 16-bit processing?
" It is the blending operation that is the problem."
Bingo!
I'm not sure what those artifacts are, but what you're showing in the enlarged crops isn't noise, Crystal.
The sooner you can post the images somewhere, the sooner a fix may be forthcoming.
It's still hard to say what happened, but it almost looks like you accidentally used one of the spatter brushes or maybe you accidentally applied a pixelate filter to a mask. I don't think there's any way to know for sure, but I'm guessing it was a simple mistake that won't be repeated if you try it again. You could disable the masks and see if any of those are causing the problems. If not, you can turn off the layers, starting with the top one and see if there is one layer that is causing the problems. Then, just try deleting that mask or layer and redoing it. Or, you could try redoing the blend from scratch and see if you have the same problem. Check the image up close after every adjustment you make to see if it is causing problems and if it is, you'll at least know what adjustment is causing it and can post here to try and find out why.
Grant, you are exactly right! I was using a textured brush! How embarrassing that I didn't realize this. Thank you for bringing it to my attention. Thanks again to all of you for taking the time to help me with this! Your comments helped me reevaluate my blending process and learn a lot more. Also, thanks for the articles about shooting into the sun. These will be most helpful.
Any other thoughts for things I should improve in this image? Here is my updated image with slightly lighter clouds and temperature adjustment.
Well I'll be....
What a great catch, Grant!
My only suggestion might be to dial back the saturation with the blues a bit. Otherwise, this is a really fine image, Crystal.
I was right?? I probably had an unfair advantage, seeing as I've already made every conceivable mistake in Photoshop. I'm viewing the new version on my lousy laptop monitor, but it looks good from here!
Discussion
19 repliesI hope things have been well with each of you! Graduation and starting my summer employment has caused me to be absent from the forum lately. However, I've still been out taking photos. The above photo was taken on Sunday evening (6/22) from the summit of Storm Peak in Rocky Mountain National Park. I was able to witness a wonderful and dramatic sunset from one of the best vantage points we have in the park. It was my first time to photograph from the summit - so I'm happy with my results.
However,to heed the advice of many regarding my often blown-out sunstars - I have begun to experiment with exposure bracketing and blending in Photoshop. I am very unskilled so far. For this photo I used auto exposure bracketing with continuous shooting mode based on original settings I programmed in manual. The result was one photo at ISO 100, f/22, 0.8 sec; one at ISO 100, f/22, 1/5 sec; and one at ISO 100, f/22, 1/20 sec. Due to the wind and shutter release, I had to auto-align my three images in Photoshop. I then created a layer mask on the lightest image, inverted it, and began painting with white to reveal the darker image beneath. I painted almost exclusively in the sky area.
Here's what I don't understand - although the blending did a good job of revealing more detail in the sky, a close zoom reveals a grainy texture. It is so grainy that I cannot blow it up to a large viewing size. I painted many strokes with as little as 10% opacity to as great as 20% to achieve the blending I desired. My flow was 100% and my hardness 0%. Did the excessive paint strokes cause the grainy texture or is it something else? The texture is not evident in the original images.
Thank you to anyone who can help me correct my novice mistake!
I'd suggest trying to combine the images with just two of the shots - a bottom layer with the 0.8 sec shot.for the land and a top layer with 1/20 secs for the sky. I'm guessing that you have enough dynamic range in the two images to be able to do this, though it's hard to say without seeing the shots. Then, instead of painting, use the Quick Select tool to select just the sky. You can hit Shift+Ctrl+I (Shift+Cmd+I on Mac) to invert the selection to the land. Then, select the mask on the top layer and hit Alt+Backspace (Opt+Delete on Mac) to mask out the land. The blend may not look perfect. If necessary, you can right-click on the mask and select Refine Mask. Adjusting the Smart Radius can sometimes be very helpful. You can then individually adjust the layers with the land and the sky to make the two look good together.
There's also software programs, like HDR Efex Pro, that can do a good job blending images. I haven't used it, but it may encounter some of the same problems with moving clouds. And I think doing it manually can be better, as you learn a lot more that way. There's also some videos by Sean Bagshaw and I think Chillips Phillips that can teach you how to do HDR.
I'd also recommend using a wider f stop for this shot. f22 can create diffraction, which lowers the image quality. It looks like you shot with a wide angle lens which can give you a lot of depth of field with wider apertures (as long as you focus at twice the distance of the closest foreground object). There's a lot of smart phone applications with depth of field calculators that can be useful.
Indeed, the grain issue seems quite odd. Your approach to blending this image is a good one in my humble opinion. If you don't mind answering a few questions, maybe we can find a solution.
When you say the individual images didn't display the grain, is that before or after you aligned them? So, are you saying the images in your stack are not grainy? When painting, did you select anything in the sky or just free handed it? Did you try this more than once? Did you try it without aligning the images just to see if the alignment process was the culprit? Sometimes Photoshop can be quirky and if bizarre issues are occurring, close it down and start again. The way you described your process should just reveal the part of the underlying layer as you intended. The paint strokes should not have caused any issues as I conduct a similar process all the time.
At least at this resolution, the image looks natural and gorgeous. Assuming you didn't clone out any lens flare, I'm amazed how clean it looks. If interested, I ran across a interesting blog post by a fellow named Michael Breitung that discusses shooting into the sun. http://mibreit-photo.com/blog/?p=1144
If you could post your 3 RAW images converted with all settings at '0' and your original blend on a site that allows you to share large files, then perhaps some of us could attempt a blend and actually see what's causing the problem.
This is a superb image well worth the attempt to get right.
Here's a different technique for shooting into the sun that you may find useful http://www.michaelfrye.com/landscape-photography-blog/2014/06/20/composing-itself/ . If the graininess is noise, this may be simpler & create less noise (I haven't tried this technique, so can't tell you from experience). John M has a good suggestion as none of us can really see/play with your images to truly be helpful.
One thing that might result in noise in the combined image is if one works with 8-bit data. Are you working with 8 or 16-bit image files?
Roger
Thats a great view of Longs, looks like this one with better conditions. http://www.kaephotography.com/photo/longs-peak-bliss/
The problem is not about camera settings, as Crystal said the images were fine before blending. It is the blending operation that is the problem. So we need to know what all the blending settings were. I'm not familiar with the operations she described, but with layers, one has opacity setting and fill setting, then the layer type. What are all those settings, and is it 8 or 16-bit processing?
Roger
I'm not sure what those artifacts are, but what you're showing in the enlarged crops isn't noise, Crystal.
The sooner you can post the images somewhere, the sooner a fix may be forthcoming.
Any other thoughts for things I should improve in this image? Here is my updated image with slightly lighter clouds and temperature adjustment.
What a great catch, Grant!
My only suggestion might be to dial back the saturation with the blues a bit. Otherwise, this is a really fine image, Crystal.