Why I'm not renewing my NPN membership

I have learned so much from the NPN community over the past 5 years. I've made wonderful connections and met NPNers in the field, doing what we love to do. World class photographers have aided me in processing, providing me with invaluable information about gear and subjects, mentored me and steered me in the right direction. Any and all success I've had with photography can be tied back in one way or another to the members of NPN.

I've bought and sold gear from fellow NPNers, I've admired their work and have been flattered when those who I consider the best at what they do, have taken the time to comment on my images (wether it be full praise, or gentle nudging), or teach me a few tricks in the field.

NPN is a great community and I feel especially connected to it, as the founder used to live in my same Town and knowing that his vision for this website was inspired by my literal and figurative backyard. That vision has stretched across the world and back, with this site showcasing images from every corner of this planet, each and every photo as inspiring as the last. Wether it is a photographers first post, or if they are a seasoned veteran, the content was always second to none.

However, the interaction has dropped severely over the past few years. At first I thought it was a blip, or maybe one or two galleries just didn't garner as much attention seasonally. But the last dozen posts I have made have resulted in the same abysmal returns. A few comments and, if I have posted in the landscape forum, I can crack 100 views. At the same time, the internet has exploded with so many platforms to share photography on. I can post an image on instagram, and even with my low number of followers, I can receive instant and immediate feedback and gratitude in the form of superficial "likes" (which I liken to "views").

I have resisted posting on Naturescapes or 500px or similar sites, because they are not focused on critiques. To me, they appear to be a place where you post a generic shot, and 100 people say how wonderful it is, and move on. I never wanted that from NPN, but for the effort I put into selecting an image, processing it, and posting it, I no longer see a worthwhile return.

I tried to convince myself that I wouldn't do this - that I would renew for another year. I'll write an article for the site, like I have in the past, and earn my membership for another 365 days. When I clicked on the "articles and reviews" page, I saw just three posts in the last 3 months. I remembered that I'd received about 2 comments in the articles I'd written in the past, with no way of knowing if more than 5 people ever read them. Again, the effort does not equal the return.

I will continue to stop by and enjoy the view, perhaps comment here and there and enjoy the works of everyone who is sticking it out. I wish Jim and his wife the best with NPN. Their unbelievable dedication over the years has been worth far more than any fee (or effort spent writing an article) I've ever given them. I mean them no disrespect with this post, but rather thank them for all their efforts. I plan on posting two more images to reach 1,000 total posts before calling it quits. Thanks again to everyone, I cannot stress that enough.

- Luke Ormand

I will not comment directly on your leaving NPN, Luke, as I feel resignations are essentially a matter of personal choice.

You have described very well the multiple benefits of participating in NPN, and I do wonder where else you would find anything comparable. It is perhaps a shame that there has been less activity on NPN over the past year or two ( a topic covered in a thread a year or so back ) but I am sure that those who continue to contribute to NPN do so because they value the dedication to subject matter, the overall structure of the site and the quality of comments here as opposed to the hundreds of views and ` awesomes ' typical of the more social-media oriented photography sites. Perhaps you may return one day ?

I agree with Ian in that moving on is a personal choice as it is in most things. I haven't posted as much in the last year or more, not because I've lost interest in NPN but because photography is a hobby for me and it's simply not been at the forefront of my endeavors. Luke, at my last renewal I too thought about not renewing because I just wasn't very active on the site. But $50 for full access even if I only post 6-8 images and a few topics per year is acceptable to me. And when I do post it's true I don't get the number of responses I once did but I almost always get responses from a "core" group whose opinions I respect and enjoy hearing. Almost everything I know about photography I've learned here so I feel sticking around is the right thing for me.
As far as time spent processing to post with little or no feedback I kind of get that. File size variances between sites could be an issue I suppose but why not use the same file for posting on all the sites you're a part of? Seems to me the files are so small anyway can it really make that much of a difference? One file......multiple posts. What sites are you going to use? I would like very much to have continued access to your photography wherever that may be. Whatever you do I've enjoyed seeing your work and appreciated your feedback over the years......

Luke, sorry to see you go. If you attribute so much to those who influenced you through NPN, I wonder what you feel should be your role in helping other newcomers that might benefit from your experience and insights? Just a thought...

I may not make friends saying this but Luke's assessment is pretty spot on, and I'm guilty as charged, I barely post and I never comment. Most of my posts in the past year have been how to battle Adobe's or Microsoft's latest bug. He obviously spent a great deal of time thinking on this subject, he isn't just leaving in a huff because somebody's post hurt his feelings last Thursday. At one time NPN was the main resource, but I see the major players of this site posting more on 500px and ViewBug than here. Let's face it, those sites came along and thinned out the resources. However, I won't be jumping ship, NPN is the only site I pay for because there is one huge attribute to NPN (Luke, maybe consider this one item): we are a family and we know and trust each other. I sold a Canon 70-200mm/2.8 to Don George a while back... I sent the lens, he sent me a money order and the two waved to each other as they passed through the postal system. It didn't even occur to me that Don wouldn't have sent the funds, and yet, his email was my first time meeting him. No way am I going to trust some great shooter on 500px that has 14 letters in his last name and 13 of them are consonants. I support Luke in his decision, but ask that the family aspect be considered. Hence, my 38 cents (adjusted for inflation, sales tax and whatever else Washington may pull out of the hat).

Sorry to see you leaving Luke. We all appreciate your input over the years, both in posting and in your comments. Hope you find a suitable site for your needs.

Luke, I will miss your posts and comments. Good luck to you on your new adventures.

The reason why I am not as active is technology. I find my images are only a base to what they end up as. This is a nature site and that means that I shouldn't use Photoshop, NIK or Topaz to enhance them... and most of my images are enhanced so I can't post them. I still faithfully view and occasionally comment but not as much as before.

Luke, I too feel very much as you do. I have been a member for 5 years now and really bounced back and forth this year before renewing my membership. I did renew and am trying my best to interact and post as much as I can. I do feel that there is a definite drop in participation, but those of us that are still here are trying our best. I feel that the site needs some updates to remain current and that was more of a deterrent to me in renewing than the drop in participation. 2 years back the portfolios page was changed...not sure but it went down for 2-3 weeks while they updated it. Before that time I received about 15,000 views a year. Since then maybe 5000. So something changed there for sure. As well the galleries page does not remove your selections when you de-select a photo. As well my email apparently does not work. Administer Brad tried to contact me and could not email me, even though my email was current, has never changed in 5 years and gets used everyday. I also check the send email for every post I put in any gallery on here. I never receive any email updates. So again the site has technical issues and I feel those are more detrimental to me returning next year than viewer participation. Maybe its time to get innovative with this site and make it more current. Remove the 24 hour posting restrictions, Have photos move up when commented on so they don't get 1 day of people seeing them and then vanish to the annals of time. I also find people posting in the improper galleries just to boost their views annoying. Not mentioning any names but how the hell is an Agave a landscape...just my $50.00 bucks worth...And as I say...I hope to get as much out of the site as I can before next year and hope some changes are made to wow me and keep me around...I am a committed member...but feel we need some updates.

Luke,

Sorry to see you leave. I like your dovekie and gyrfalcon images from your gallery. The art of critiquing is disappearing on NPN. The quality of the photos is quite good for the most part. The only obvious correlation between an excellent photo and an average image is the number of comments. A photo that needs help barely gets any constructive comments while the comments pour on for the great images. Both categories (good vs. bad) should receive almost the same number of comments. Constructive comments carry more weight than acolades. That is how the users and posters of this site become better at their craft! I enjoy the positive comments and learn much from positive and negative comments from my works and from the photos of others on NPN. .......................Jim

First, I would like to thank Luke for his participation at NPN, and I sincerely hope that his participation continues. I do, however, understand his reasons for leaving.

I have certainly seen the reduction in the number of posts in all the various forums and galleries here, having been an NPN member for over 12 years. I am sure there are myriad reasons for this: Social media, the plethora of other sites where one can post photographs, people have less discretionary time, and the fact that NPN and PhotoPortfolios are in need of a face-lift and bug fixes.

I do not know how to go about making changes to NPN that will result in more members and a greater level of participation by members. The only thing I can do is to provide leadership by posting my own work and writing critiques that are meaningful, along with encouraging others to do the same.

As far as the infrastructure of the site is concerned, it is solely up to Jim to decide how to proceed and to what level he wants to take it. Here's a thread from last year that discussed various suggestions for improving NPN. Hopefully, those of you who have ideas will add them that thread. If you are experiencing what you believe are bugs, by all means, let Jim know via e-mail, or post here.

Now, I would like to address the following comment by Gary, specifically...

"I also find people posting in the improper galleries just to boost their views annoying. Not mentioning any names but how the hell is an Agave a landscape"

I'll freely admit that the offending Agave images are mine. However, for you to suggest that I posted them in the Landscape Gallery in order to get more views/comments, is an inaccurate assumption. If you, or any other member are offended or annoyed by something I post, I would appreciate that such concerns be handled privately either by contacting me directly, or through a moderator. If the moderators feel that my posts are in the wrong forum or gallery, I have no problem with them being moved.

"Have photos move up when commented on so they don't get 1 day of people seeing them and then vanish to the annals of time."

Way back in 2002, before the current software was installed, it was possible to bring an image post 'back-to-the-top'. The reason this was changed in the current software is because the privilege was frequently abused. The OP would reply to their post many times simply to bring it back to the top of the page. Most members found this to be extremely annoying.

NPN has been, and will continue to be a great resource for me even though I have been seriously engaged in the art and craft of photography since 1970. There is always something new to learn and put into practice, and NPN has been my primary venue. Last but not least, there are several members that I now consider among my closest friends and colleagues.

NPN is only as strong as it's membership. At least to me, the true gratification comes not from what I gain, but from what I give.

--P

Preston, I am not annoyed or offended by your landscape Agave. In fact I hadn't paid attention to who's it was. I just remembered seeing it and wondering why it was posted in Landscapes. So seeing as I have found the perpetrator of this heinous act, I must in good conscious, take the opportunity to ask; What is it about this particular Agave that makes it a landscape?

What is it about this particular Agave that makes it a landscape?

I'll only answer to the point or question in general and will allow Preston to hopefully provide his more specific reason or answer.

For me personally I've found myself trying to decide on what gallery an image belongs in at times, the agave may not be a good example here. It to me could possibly be a bit more finally defined to a flora image. However, being a closeup of the agave should it have been in Macro / Closeup? I recently had a tree knot image that I placed in landscape. It was in fact flora by definition of a dead tree, and I did shoot it with a macro lens too.

What made me decide to post it in landscape was a bit of habit on my part, typically it's the only place I've posted in over the many years I've been here. Secondly looking at the beautiful flowers and insects in the Closeup / Macro or Flora galleries my dead tree knot did not seem to fit those galleries at all. I guess I could have posted in POP, and maybe I should have. But then again, People, Object or Place did not seem right either.

Anyway, the moderators have a big enough challenge and the overlapping in galleries is just part of it. To me it's not always a clear cut image on exact gallery location.........just my own thoughts here.

So, I see a bit of cross over in the galleries some times for no other reason then what I've stated, at least from my POV anyway.

I also find people posting in the improper galleries just to boost their views annoying. Not mentioning any names but how the hell is an Agave a landscape.

Wow..... that comment seems unnecessary. Is there some reason you think you can assert what you said???? Then to play the game of "Not mentioning names"... Without facts to attempt to back up your assertions, your statement is at best laughable....

Regarding the notion that people post in Landscape to boost their views, I think the opposite actually happens. I have seen a number of great photos in sparsely viewed galleries that could have been placed in Landscape, but weren't, and they receive only a few views. Also, perhaps there should be some latitude given if the "hand of man" is present, but negligible. I would also encourage viewing the "all photos" category to see all the recent posts, instead of jumping to Landscape (which clearly receives the most views and comments.)

I would also commend Luke for coming forward and stating the reasons we won't be seeing his photos in the future. It doesn't leave us wondering, as is the case of at least one prominent member I can think of whose work seems to have gone elsewhere. I would, nevertheless, encourage Luke to remain a member whose photos and critiques have contributed to the strength of NPN. This is a great learning site, in my opinion the best I've seen on the web, and learning never ends.

Keith, as I already mentioned to Preston, His post did not annoy me. I used his post as the last example of a post that I had seen in a gallery that was clearly not what the gallery was listed as. When I said not mentioning any names was in fact because I did not know who's it was. I never went back to get the name...or really cared. I had seen it ... it was there..it was the last example at the top of my head. If you think people do not post in certain galleries to boost their views for whatever reason. You are naïve, we all know this happens. I apologize to Preston if my wording inferred that he specifically placed that image there to get more views. And I see how that is what the statement looked like. It was not meant to be tied to the Agave getting more views. Oh the drama of the Agave...it just never ends.. And that sir is laughable.

Thanks to all who have taken the time to comment. Why am I not surprised the thread got hijacked for awhile? Regardless, I will continue to comment here and there, but to me the juice is not worth the squeeze. I suspect that NPN will never be revamped to compete - likely because Jim doesn't care to compete.

I felt obliged to post my reasons, and thank those who have made these 5 years so great and who have taught me so much. I didn't want to disappear without a word like so many photographers have done in recent years.

Luke,
Am I missing something ? You have said twice now that you will continue to comment here and there in the future, how is that done if you are not a member ?

Mike - until the membership is over. Sorry

Luke, I feel I must comment on the following...

I suspect that NPN will never be revamped to compete - likely because Jim doesn't care to compete.

Just my humble opinion, but I think this is a pretty large assumption. I certainly have no crystal ball into Jim's goals for NPN, so I won't even speculate. However, as I said in my original post, "NPN is only as strong as its membership." When people leave, there is a void created in terms of activity and revenue. The first is not conducive to increasing incentive on the part of the NPN staff and other members, and with the second, a site such as NPN needs revenue to continue operations, and to grow.

I hope that you will stay on as valued member of our community.

--P

Preston - you make valid points, and frankly my words were abbreviated. It was a shortened version of what I told another member through an e-mail. I do not wish to pretend to know what Jim is thinking, or to imply he is apathetic toward something he has poured so much time and effort into. However, NPN has fallen further and further behind the curve (from a purely technical/visual perspective) that it may be difficult to catch-up without a complete re-invention.

I sure hate to see you go Luke. You've been around for a long time, and you'll be greatly missed. I can't argue with a single thing you've said, but I still hate to see an long standing member leave. NPN lost a lot of momentum several years back when a number of long term members left and has never fully recovered, it seems. While we've gained some wonderful new shooters, the comments have just lagged behind, at least in landscape. I will certainly take some of the blame myself because I've been so busy the past year I just simply haven't had the time to comment that I once had. As a landscape moderator I feel doubly bad about that, but facts are facts. Personally, I hope you'll reconsider and write another article to fulfill your membership obligation and continue to help NPN be a classy place for others to learn and share. If, not, I wish you the best and good luck!

I will certainly take some of the blame myself because I've been so busy the past year I just simply haven't had the time to comment that I once had.

Bill, no consideration at all for any blame. We all have life issues and it's how things go. We try to control our well being in life for ourselves and our family members, however, reality has a way of running it's course. Like you, Luke has been here for quite a few years. More importantly then a quantity of years as a gauge, it's always been the dedication and support to others here that really counts. Again, both you and Luke have done a very admirable job all around in that area.

The impact you mention of the membership fall off sometime ago no doubt was an important issue, however, I think more importantly the bridge in the gap seems hard to fill with the same dedication, participation, and yes the same old issue, strong CP ratios. It seemed to be almost a very important milestone for the many that held high CP ratios back then, but now, not an item most would seemingly care about.

I too hope you reconsider Luke, if not good luck to you and take it easy out there on L.I. my home territory as a kid.

Luke, why not just take a break rather than leave altogether? You may feel completely different about NPN in a couple of months time.

Active members like yourself are just what NPN needs.

Good luck anyway.

Gary.