I'm a long time Canon shooter who's really frustrated by Canon's lack of activity in the sensor department. I shoot landscapes predominantly. Ever since the D800 and the Sony A7 series came out, I've seen a lot of Canon shooters jump ship to the new sensors which offer significantly better dynamic range and image quality. Not to mention that Nikon has the god lens, the 14-24 f/2.8.
I'm seriously considering switching to Nikon and sell all my Canon gear. I have the following setup at the moment :
Canon 5D Mark iii
Canon 16-35 f/2.8 ii
Canon 24-105 f/4
Canon 100-400 ii
I'm looking for a full frame camera and two lenses, A super wide angle, and a mid range lens. If there is a lens that can cover the 24-200mm range, that would be awesome ;)
My main requirements are excellent dynamic range and excellent low light performance. I'm really sick of seeing grain paintings every time I try to open up shadows in Camera RAW.
I'm totally new to the world of Nikon so I'd appreciate some sound advice on what you guys think would be the right setup to replace what I currently have.
Thanks!
Sairam
Posted by George Givens on July 21, 2015 at 11:31 PM
Photography is originally a greek word so it has the same meaning in greek. it consists of two words put together. "photo" which derives from "phos" and it means "light" in english, and graphy, derived from graphi , which can mean write or drawing. Thus drawing (painting) with light.
I believe that you are suffering from "the grass is greener" syndrome. I have exactly the same inventory you do of camera and lenses. I did add the Canon 70-200 2.8 II lens, which is fabulous.
No camera is perfect, but the 5DIII is one of the best out there for dynamic range. I've gotten detail from shadows I never thought possible. I'm not a super geek when it comes to testing multiple cameras, but I'd put the 5DIII against the Nikon D800 as equal in DR or at least in the same ball park. With high dynamic range shots, I was taught by many in the field to "expose to the right" as far as I could, over exposing as much as possible without blowing out the whites. That way, I could pull down the lights and exposure in post processing and still preserve the detail in the darks without having the jack them up and induce noise. I would highly recommend this technique to anyone with these problems (and we all have them). Also, the latest version of LIghtroom has some great tools for pulling out detail in those dark areas. Between shooting techniques, and post processing tools, I'm betting you can get the result you want and spend a LOT less money.
If DR is still a problem, the other technique to employ is graduated ND filters that can "hold back the sky" in landscape shots so you make it easier to accommodate high DR. The Lee filter system is fabulous for this. While it's a bit expensive ($500 or so for the holders and a set of filters), it's still way cheaper than changing cameras & lenses.
Also, I use the Nikon 14-24 on my 5DIII with an adapter & it works great. I'm renting the Canon 11-24 mm next week to check it out. If it's as good as they say, I'll sell the Nkon lens & just go with the super-wide Canon version.
Best of luck with your choices.
Posted by Keith Bauer on July 22, 2015 at 11:59 AM
Ditto what Wick said. Chasing gear is not going to add value based on the equipment you already own. Here is a 5D mark III image at ISO 25,600 with no noise reduction. If you are getting the noise you described, I'd suggest it is an exposure issue.
Thanks for the insight guys, but I assure you, I'm not a gear fanatic. I've always used as minimal gear as possible to get the shot that I see in the field. I have always exposed to the right, and have bracketed images to ensure that I have all the data that I need.
However, there are situations when one is shooting in dramatic high contrast light when you don't have the luxury of bracketing. For example, take a forest scene under severe windy conditions. In those circumstances exposure bracketing and focus stacking would be very very challenging to pull off. Yes, I have done that in the past, but, with the newer sensors, it's possible to do that with fewer images making your life MUCH more easier in post. Further, I have used ND grads and ND filters extensively to control light, but you cannot use ND grads in all scenes, especially where the horizon isn't well defined.
The Canon 5D mark iii is a great camera, and I have been a Canon shooter ever since I picked up the camera. The 5D iii can recover at most 2 to 2.5 stops of shadows while the D800 easily recovers 4 to 4.5 stops of light. I tend to shoot in these conditions a lot more and hence wish to change. Not because the grass is greener on the other side.
Please don't think that I want to own the next coolest thing in the market or what the big guys are using. If I wanted to, I would have just bought the gear right away. I truly appreciate your insights.
You can get a good deal on the D800, but take a look at the D810. The reviews have been excellent. Harley purchased one not long ago and he has been very happy with the camera and Nikon glass.
Perhaps he'll weigh in with more info, especially with regard to its dynamic range, noise, and lenses.
I have a D-7100. It has the same processing engine as the D-800 and I've been happy with the dynamic range and it's noise characteristics.
For landscapes, the Sony A7R (or coming A7RII) with Metabones adapter will give you better dynamic range and you can use your Canon glass. Nikon uses Sony sensors in their D800/D810 cameras although the data is processed through their own proprietary software so results differ a bit. Last year I got a great deal on a slightly used A7R and have used it with my Canon lenses and the results are great. It does have a noticeable increase in DR over the 5DMK3. I still use the 5D3 when autofocus and speed are a priority but for slow paced shooting I choose the A7R. This is not a knock on the 5D3 which I still think is an amazing piece of gear. Before selling off your entire system it might be worth looking into the Sony body with adapter options.
The D-810 was launched in June of 2014, so it's their latest model in the line. I haven't heard of any updates, but since the camera has only been out for a year, I wouldn't expect any in the near future. More info on the camera at dpReview.
The A7R with Metabones adapter is terrible for AF and I do not even attempt it and go exclusively with manual focus. That is why I only use it for deliberate tyes of photography and use the 5d3 for action. It's a breeze to get extremely accurate focusing with the focus point magnification feature and the points that go to almost to the edges of the frame. The live viewfinder horizon level is also a nice feature so the hotshoe bubble level is a thing of the past. The A7RII is promising much improved AF but that won't be known for sure until people get it out in the real world.
Most technical reviews and reports from photographers that haved personally compared Canon vs Nikon and Sony as far as Dynamic Range agree that Canon has been lagging in that regard. Many longtime Canon users are lamenting that the new 50MP Canon apparently will not address that issue.
DXOMark is one of the most respected technical reviewers of cameras and lenses, and a comparison shows quite a bit of difference in DR ("Landscape" in their tests). Almost any current Nikon beats Canon in DR.
Many serious Canon users bracket exposures and do manual blending to achieve the desired dynamic range without noise.
In that Sony's new A7RII will likely jump to the top of the heap, and that Nikon uses Sony sensors, I'd guess it's likely that Nikon will come out with a new camera within a year. Canon may have something up their sleeves, also.
Discussion
12 repliesHi folks,
I'm a long time Canon shooter who's really frustrated by Canon's lack of activity in the sensor department. I shoot landscapes predominantly. Ever since the D800 and the Sony A7 series came out, I've seen a lot of Canon shooters jump ship to the new sensors which offer significantly better dynamic range and image quality. Not to mention that Nikon has the god lens, the 14-24 f/2.8.
I'm seriously considering switching to Nikon and sell all my Canon gear. I have the following setup at the moment :
Canon 5D Mark iii
Canon 16-35 f/2.8 ii
Canon 24-105 f/4
Canon 100-400 ii
I'm looking for a full frame camera and two lenses, A super wide angle, and a mid range lens. If there is a lens that can cover the 24-200mm range, that would be awesome ;)
My main requirements are excellent dynamic range and excellent low light performance. I'm really sick of seeing grain paintings every time I try to open up shadows in Camera RAW.
I'm totally new to the world of Nikon so I'd appreciate some sound advice on what you guys think would be the right setup to replace what I currently have.
Thanks!
Sairam
Photography is originally a greek word so it has the same meaning in greek. it consists of two words put together. "photo" which derives from "phos" and it means "light" in english, and graphy, derived from graphi , which can mean write or drawing. Thus drawing (painting) with light.
Sairam,
I believe that you are suffering from "the grass is greener" syndrome. I have exactly the same inventory you do of camera and lenses. I did add the Canon 70-200 2.8 II lens, which is fabulous.
No camera is perfect, but the 5DIII is one of the best out there for dynamic range. I've gotten detail from shadows I never thought possible. I'm not a super geek when it comes to testing multiple cameras, but I'd put the 5DIII against the Nikon D800 as equal in DR or at least in the same ball park. With high dynamic range shots, I was taught by many in the field to "expose to the right" as far as I could, over exposing as much as possible without blowing out the whites. That way, I could pull down the lights and exposure in post processing and still preserve the detail in the darks without having the jack them up and induce noise. I would highly recommend this technique to anyone with these problems (and we all have them). Also, the latest version of LIghtroom has some great tools for pulling out detail in those dark areas. Between shooting techniques, and post processing tools, I'm betting you can get the result you want and spend a LOT less money.
If DR is still a problem, the other technique to employ is graduated ND filters that can "hold back the sky" in landscape shots so you make it easier to accommodate high DR. The Lee filter system is fabulous for this. While it's a bit expensive ($500 or so for the holders and a set of filters), it's still way cheaper than changing cameras & lenses.
Also, I use the Nikon 14-24 on my 5DIII with an adapter & it works great. I'm renting the Canon 11-24 mm next week to check it out. If it's as good as they say, I'll sell the Nkon lens & just go with the super-wide Canon version.
Best of luck with your choices.
Ditto what Wick said. Chasing gear is not going to add value based on the equipment you already own. Here is a 5D mark III image at ISO 25,600 with no noise reduction. If you are getting the noise you described, I'd suggest it is an exposure issue.
Thanks for the insight guys, but I assure you, I'm not a gear fanatic. I've always used as minimal gear as possible to get the shot that I see in the field. I have always exposed to the right, and have bracketed images to ensure that I have all the data that I need.
However, there are situations when one is shooting in dramatic high contrast light when you don't have the luxury of bracketing. For example, take a forest scene under severe windy conditions. In those circumstances exposure bracketing and focus stacking would be very very challenging to pull off. Yes, I have done that in the past, but, with the newer sensors, it's possible to do that with fewer images making your life MUCH more easier in post. Further, I have used ND grads and ND filters extensively to control light, but you cannot use ND grads in all scenes, especially where the horizon isn't well defined.
The Canon 5D mark iii is a great camera, and I have been a Canon shooter ever since I picked up the camera. The 5D iii can recover at most 2 to 2.5 stops of shadows while the D800 easily recovers 4 to 4.5 stops of light. I tend to shoot in these conditions a lot more and hence wish to change. Not because the grass is greener on the other side.
Please don't think that I want to own the next coolest thing in the market or what the big guys are using. If I wanted to, I would have just bought the gear right away. I truly appreciate your insights.
Sairam,
You can get a good deal on the D800, but take a look at the D810. The reviews have been excellent. Harley purchased one not long ago and he has been very happy with the camera and Nikon glass.
Perhaps he'll weigh in with more info, especially with regard to its dynamic range, noise, and lenses.
I have a D-7100. It has the same processing engine as the D-800 and I've been happy with the dynamic range and it's noise characteristics.
--P
For landscapes, the Sony A7R (or coming A7RII) with Metabones adapter will give you better dynamic range and you can use your Canon glass. Nikon uses Sony sensors in their D800/D810 cameras although the data is processed through their own proprietary software so results differ a bit. Last year I got a great deal on a slightly used A7R and have used it with my Canon lenses and the results are great. It does have a noticeable increase in DR over the 5DMK3. I still use the 5D3 when autofocus and speed are a priority but for slow paced shooting I choose the A7R. This is not a knock on the 5D3 which I still think is an amazing piece of gear. Before selling off your entire system it might be worth looking into the Sony body with adapter options.
Preston, The D810 sounds like a good proposition, but are they updating the camera anytime soon? If so, I could wait for the newer one to come out.
David : That is also something I'm thinking about. How reliable is the system if you use an adapter? My concerns were the autofocus and speed.
Sairam,
The D-810 was launched in June of 2014, so it's their latest model in the line. I haven't heard of any updates, but since the camera has only been out for a year, I wouldn't expect any in the near future. More info on the camera at dpReview.
--P
The A7R with Metabones adapter is terrible for AF and I do not even attempt it and go exclusively with manual focus. That is why I only use it for deliberate tyes of photography and use the 5d3 for action. It's a breeze to get extremely accurate focusing with the focus point magnification feature and the points that go to almost to the edges of the frame. The live viewfinder horizon level is also a nice feature so the hotshoe bubble level is a thing of the past. The A7RII is promising much improved AF but that won't be known for sure until people get it out in the real world.
Thanks for the info David. Hoping that the a7R ii does live up to all the hype!
Most technical reviews and reports from photographers that haved personally compared Canon vs Nikon and Sony as far as Dynamic Range agree that Canon has been lagging in that regard. Many longtime Canon users are lamenting that the new 50MP Canon apparently will not address that issue.
DXOMark is one of the most respected technical reviewers of cameras and lenses, and a comparison shows quite a bit of difference in DR ("Landscape" in their tests). Almost any current Nikon beats Canon in DR.
http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Canon-EOS-5D-Mark-III-versus-Nikon-D810-versus-Sony-A7R___795_963_917
Many serious Canon users bracket exposures and do manual blending to achieve the desired dynamic range without noise.
In that Sony's new A7RII will likely jump to the top of the heap, and that Nikon uses Sony sensors, I'd guess it's likely that Nikon will come out with a new camera within a year. Canon may have something up their sleeves, also.
Thanks for the info, Greg. Agreed! Definitely need to bracket a lot more for Canon :)