Posted by Bill Fach on November 29, 2015 at 9:51 PM
Has anyone else had problems with the larger version images not coming up large but even in some cases coming in smaller. This is happening on my laptop with Chrome or IE.
Bill, I just checked my latest image post in Landscape in IE 11, MS Edge, and Firefox (Windows 10 64 bit desktop) and the large version comes up as advertised. I don't use Chrome.
--P
Posted by Bill Fach on November 29, 2015 at 11:00 PM
Preston: Just opened your most recent post in Firefox and it was OK but your post immediately prior to that - Yosemite Details #8- comes up smaller than the initial gallery image.
Guys, I've been talking to Mark Seaver off line about this. We've been looking at things for a day or two now and thought we were having browser / PC resolution setting issues maybe. However, after thinking it through something is a miss here at NPN recently with LARGER version images.
It has nothing to do with the upload sizes, that works fine, it's when you click on the regular size to go LARGER view, to me it actually looks smaller then the regular ones..........
I'm on latest version Firefox and so is Mark........
Posted by John Tobias on November 30, 2015 at 12:26 AM
I also have this problem, most of the images I click on are smaller than the posted one, mine included. Just thought it was because I usually post at the larger size.
Posted by Luke Ormand on November 30, 2015 at 9:14 AM
Bill and others - how large is your browser window that you are trying to view the images in? My photos, for instance, are posted at 1500 pixels wide. When I'm at work I have a relatively small browser window setup so it takes up less than the full screen - when I click the larger image it comes up smaller. BUT, if I maximize the browser screen to the full size and click on the larger view, it comes up properly.
Unless the browser window is large enough to accomdate a 1500 pixel image, it will automatically be rendered at the smaller size.
Hi Luke, by using CTRL + or - I can increase or decrease the browser viewing ratio. Basically stated zooming in or out if you will. To set the browser to normal browsing aspect ratio CTRL 0 (zero) will bring it back to the default location. I have mine at 0 location and always leave it there.
Up until recently I've never had any issues with viewing the LARGER version image. In fact, I can still see the REGULAR size image just fine and it is fairly large on screen. So, I'm puzzled as to why by clicking on it brings up a smaller version and I really don't see the browsing limitations or settings understanding going from REGULAR to LARGER version. Maybe I'm lost here.
To me it almost seems like the uploaded images are reversed, if that makes sense. Meaning the REGULAR size is larger then the LARGER version.........
Posted by Luke Ormand on November 30, 2015 at 10:53 AM
Paul,
That's not what I'm talking about - that only increases the text size. I mean the actual browser WINDOW.
What size screen are you viewing the photos on? Is your browser set to "full screen"?
Check out the two screenshots I just grabbed. The first was with my browser window reduced - notice how the "large" image is smaller than the background image.
The second screenshot is when I maximized my browser (full screen). The "larger" image now takes up the whole screen and is rendered at full size
- Luke
Posted by Luke Ormand on November 30, 2015 at 10:53 AM
Luke, thanks for this info. However, using latest Firefox and toggling between full screen viewing and standard viewing does not cure what I'm seeing. Although it makes things bigger the overlay of the larger image is still smaller while super imposed over the regular size image.
On Firefox there is an option icon under settings to go full screen or just use F11 key to toggle it. So, again I'm not sure as it appears others are having the issue too and I've never had to use full screen to see the larger version transition to being bigger then the regular size in the past.
BTW: I also tried using Edge and got the same results when going from regular to larger version.
Thanks again, Luke. This might take a software propeller head to figure out what we're seeing as of late........
Posted by Mark Seaver on November 30, 2015 at 11:58 AM
I just went to Preston's gallery and worked through his Yosemite Details series. The larger versions of all of them came up as larger, although several of them (e.g. #7, #8, #9) were only a little larger (I'm going to guess that they are posted at 1000px wide). I'm using the latest version of Firefox on a Mac running Lion 10.7.5.
I have also noticed that something is not quite right. For the past week or so (not sure exactly when it started) the large images have much poorer resolution that the jpgs that I upload, and yes, now that you mention it, they are smaller than what I uploaded, and that was not the case previously. I always upload 1600px on the large side. I also just checked my two Georgia Autumn Oconee River images, uploaded 11/20 and 11/23, and I see that they look quite blurry. I remember looking at them right after I uploaded them and they were much crisper. I am now in my office and the monitor is not as good as the one at home, but I am certain of the difference, and will recheck this evening.
I use Google Chrome, Windows 10 at home and Windows XP in the office (don't laught - not compatible old software). I have not tried other browsers, but will try tonight at home and report back.
I do think that the problem is at NPN, though.
If anybody would like copies of the jpgs that I uploaded in order to make your own comparisons please let me know, I will be happy to send you the exact same files that I uploaded.
Just thinking out loud here......did any of the mods send Jim a message yet? If he is aware then we don't need to keep speculating as to the possibilities or cause factors......
Posted by Mark Seaver on November 30, 2015 at 5:38 PM
Set email to Jim, just now.
Posted by Jim Erhardt on November 30, 2015 at 6:08 PM
Back from visiting family out of state...
Can you post links to photos that don't appear right? Thanks!
BTW, Luke is correct - that larger photo will auto-size to the browser window, the intermediate (720) does not. This is especially evident in vertical (portrait) photos, where the larger may actually render smaller to fit the browser window. If that is what you're seeing, then the behavior is normal.
Posted by Bill Fach on November 30, 2015 at 7:11 PM
Posted by Jim Erhardt on November 30, 2015 at 7:25 PM
Bill, just checked both of them on a 1920 X 1200 monitor with IE, Chrome and Firefox and all the large photos render LARGE!
What is the resolution of the screen you are viewing these on? You will only get about 85% of the screen res, depending on the browser. Example: a 1300 pixel (width) screen res will show the photo at around 1100 pixels, even if you upload it at 1600 pixels.
I would suggest viewing them on a larger screen to test it for yourself.
Posted by Lon Overacker on November 30, 2015 at 7:44 PM
In my testing I can confirm it's all relative to 2 factors, your individual monitor size and resolution and second the original uploaded size (which as a viewer we have no way to know what size was originally loaded, so that confounds the results we're seeing.) I'm looking at Bill's linked post on 3 different systems, 23" on Chrome, 20" on IE11 and my work 15" laptop. The large view is a different size on all monitors - but each fitting relative to the actual size of the monitor. In other words, the larger view shows the biggest on my 23" screen.
I didn't put my finger on it, especially since I've just recently come back to view and post, but I do recall having to scroll vertically on very tall images 1200px and up. This actually made me chose to only create 1000px images on the vertical for posting. Now there's no scrolling.
My question for Jim then is, when was the change made that started detecting screen/resolution size and auto adjusted the uploaded images to fit within the browser window? If there was a change.
Also, I've notice the same thing Alberto mentions, and that is in some cases, the larger view is softer. I think this is a related issue if indeed the larger uploads are resized to fit an individual's monitor and browser.
With all the variables (different monitors, resolutions and uploaded sizes) it makes sense why not everyone is experiencing the same issues.
Posted by Bill Fach on November 30, 2015 at 7:55 PM
Jim: I'm not trying to be obtuse but the behavior of the larger images is different on my laptop than before. My screen resolution is 1366x768 and when I used to click on the larger image link the image would practically fill my screen. On my 1920x1200 desktop monitor the image does enlarge. I have not changed any settings on the laptop and am puzzled why some images enlarge a little and some even downsize.
Not to confuse things and trying to simplify what I see using a 24" monitor with resolution set at 1920 X 1200.
I posted this image the other day at 1200 x 996 as the LARGER version. I then posted the regular size at 720 x 598.
When I open the post up to viewing of the regular or standard image it seems normal to me as in the past. However, when I click on the image to go for the LARGER version it actually opens up just slightly smaller then the regular image outlined behind it.
Posted by Jim Erhardt on November 30, 2015 at 8:02 PM
Lon, the changes were made this past summer with the site updates. The new lightbox script resizes to fit the larger image to the detected window size.
Bill, I'm not sure - I'm on a 1366X768 laptop right now and see exactly what you describe. On my 1920X1200 monitor, the large photos are MUCH larger (I could do a screen shot and measure them in PS). As Lon described above, it's all a function of screen res and browser settings.
Posted by Bill Fach on November 30, 2015 at 8:07 PM
All of this seems to have happened in the past week or so although I've been travelling a lot since the middle of October and have not been checking in as frequently as usual.
Posted by Jim Erhardt on November 30, 2015 at 8:19 PM
Paul, the 996 height of that image is the limiting dimension. The script adds the photo title under the photo which takes up room, and whatever browser menus you have open take up room. Try closing some of the browser menus (like favorites, command bar, etc.) and you will see the photo open larger. Everything appears to be working as intended.
Nothing has changed as far as I can tell since we implemented the lightbox script.
Thanks Jim for the review and help too. I did not think about the 1200 x 996 and of course the recommended 800 vertical limit crossing paths with a horizontal image. But obviously it does.....
you can download four of my recent images, plus another one that I posted about a year ago, when the maximum size was less than now. You have to download them, NOT look at them on Google drive, as that is not full resolution. These are the exact files that I uploaded. It used to be that when I opened the large view on NPN the image would pop up at the same size as the one that I uploaded, and with the same resolution. Not anymore. Now the image opens smaller (though larger than the small image), and with significantly lower resolution. Check for example the layering on Zabiskie Point, or the details of the canyons in the Panamints in the background of that photo, or the details on the camellia and dry leaves. I am sure that I am not imagining this!
My screen is set at 1920 x1080, and has always been, I have not changed anything, ever, since I bought this computer/monitor about 3 years ago.
Perhaps it is not an NPN issue, but some change in the way that browsers process input - but then why would it happen on both Chrome and Edge?
I hope this helps!
Posted by Jim Erhardt on December 1, 2015 at 6:58 AM
Before the gallery updates earlier in the year, we used a VIEW LARGE PHOTO text link under the 720 that would open up the large version of the photo in a new window at full resolution on a gray background. If the size of the uploaded photo exceeded the screen resolution being used by the person viewing it, they would have to scroll around to see all of the photo. The current lightbox viewer resizes the photo to fit the browser window (how much screen "real estate" is left with browser menu bars activated). In this regard, the changes you are seeing were done earlier in the year - nothing has changed since the galleries were updated with the lightbox viewer.
Here's a thought - I think many used the old method to view details in the photo for critique purposes. I do not believe it would be much of a job to leave the current lightbox viewer in place and add a Detailed View link under the 720 to open up the large version at full resolution, just like the VIEW LARGE PHOTO link we had before. So clicking the 720 would open the lightbox viewer to enlarge the photo as much as allowed by window size, and using the Detailed View text link would open it up full size regardless of screen res.
Let me know your thoughts on this idea and I will get with DtP to implement.
Posted by Bill Fach on December 1, 2015 at 8:49 AM
Jim: That would work for me but I'm still puzzled by the new behavior as every larger version opened at full resolution on my laptop with the new lightbox arrangement with no attempt to size it proportionately to the browser window. Clicking on the gallery image would result in a full resolution large version that would fill my screen and overlay completely what was underneath.
.nothing has changed since the galleries were updated with the lightbox viewer
Jim, it might be just a coincidence that some of us over the last few days have encountered what seemed like a change. I'd worked a day or so without saying anything and then contacted Mark Seaver to see if he saw anything different. He stated he did not see any issues.
However, after playing with thoughts Luke had shared along with your comment about removing any menu / tool bars I was able to get a LARGER image by clicking on the 720. Luke had brought up the issue about "full screen", which I tried a couple times but did not see any change. But I'd been toggling "full screen" with the original image already opened to full size. It took closing and reopening the image after going "full screen" to get that to work correctly.
So, if not a big deal or $$$ maybe your suggestion with the LARGER VIEW link will solve some browser window issues across the board even if it requires people to scroll to see the image at full scale.
I agree with Bill that somethingh changed, as I see the exact same behavior that he sees. I made no changes to my setup, and I see it on two different computers. However, I also see that nothing changed at NPN. I wonder if people using Macs are also seeing the change? If not, I suspect that this may be the result of a Windows "update" on which we have no control, nor are we told what these "updates" do.
Your solution would of course be great, if we can afford it. If $$$ are an issue, would it be possible to suggest voluntary contributions frpm active members?
Just some thoughts
Posted by Jim Erhardt on December 1, 2015 at 11:19 AM
Jim: That would work for me but I'm still puzzled by the new behavior...
Bill, I've looked at this now on 4 different PCs with varying screen sizes on multiple browsers and I am not seeing anything new - it's working just as it always has. I'm beginning to think that many were not aware of this "downsize to fit the browser/screen res" behavior of the lightbox viewer script and are now just noticing it. Browser setting changes or updates could also explain what you're seeing.
Bear in mind that the proportion of the photo will directly impact this as well, because you will run out of vertical space (especially with "wide screen" laptop displays) long before you'll run out of room horizontally. For example, a square crop sized to 1000 pixels will not render full size in the lightbox viewer even on a 1920X1200 monitor - I've found around 900 pixels is the max for the vertical dimension on a 1920X1200 screen.
With most browsers, you will need to keep the vertical size under about 75% of the vertical screen resolution (even on landscape-orientation photos) to avoid down sizing in the lightbox viewer, because the browser occupies around 25% of the vertical height with menu bars, depending on which bars you have activated. On a 1366X768 display, anything larger than around 570 pixels in height will be down sized. Example: if you upload a 1000X700 large version, the lightbox will downsize it on a 1366X768 (runs out of vertical space) but it will render full size on a 1680X1050 or larger screen.
Another consideration: if you upload a square-cropped intermediate (720) photo sized to 720 X 720, it will render full size on the comments screen. Upon clicking the 720 on a 1366X768 display, the large version (regardless of the size it was uploaded) will actually appear smaller in the lightbox viewer due to sizing to the browser window.
I will be working on installing the proposed DETAIL VIEW link to access the uploaded larger version directly with no resizing, just like we had with the VIEW LARGE PHOTO before we installed the lightbox viewer. When done, you will actually have three viewing options: the 720 intermediate (no resize) as displayed on the comments screen, the lightbox view (resized if needed to fit the browser window/screen resolution) and the full size as uploaded which will usually require scrolling but will be useful for examining detail in the photo.
I'll be talking with DtP and share your observations with him. If he can add any insight, I will certainly share it with you.
I am just wondering if DtP updated the Viewer script when he did the update to the Comment dialog box in order for that to work properly with MS Edge? If so, that might explain why some are seeing issues in other browsers.
I am not seeing any of the issues reported. My monitor resolution is 2560X1440. My Edge an IE 11 window widths are set to a bit over half the horizontal screen dimension.
My large image size are set to 1000px for landscape format and 800px for portrait format.
--P
I suspect there are a multitude of items that can change our viewing overall. With the many browsers, tool bar heights, monitor sizes and resolutions it might be tough to seek an even water level across the board. But, if there were any system changes at all recently as Preston mentions it might be a thought to verify that item.
However, going forward I'm sure all these updates and changes from a variety of OS / browser uses the suggested link by Jim might be the overall long term catchall. Although I'm in a second guessing mode on what might be considered a long term catchall...
Posted by Jim Erhardt on December 1, 2015 at 12:45 PM
Just off the phone with DtP and he also thinks this is most likely browser-related. That said, I found a few minor things amiss that we can't figure out how they happened, but ironed them out anyway;
There was a line under the gallery thumbnails from an unexplained change in a cellpadding setting
We changed a style sheet setting for the forum topics listing that was justifying text on the topics page
We discussed the Detail View link and will have that done this week (problems are opportunities to make enhancements)!
Discussion
32 replies--P
It has nothing to do with the upload sizes, that works fine, it's when you click on the regular size to go LARGER view, to me it actually looks smaller then the regular ones..........
I'm on latest version Firefox and so is Mark........
Unless the browser window is large enough to accomdate a 1500 pixel image, it will automatically be rendered at the smaller size.
Up until recently I've never had any issues with viewing the LARGER version image. In fact, I can still see the REGULAR size image just fine and it is fairly large on screen. So, I'm puzzled as to why by clicking on it brings up a smaller version and I really don't see the browsing limitations or settings understanding going from REGULAR to LARGER version. Maybe I'm lost here.
To me it almost seems like the uploaded images are reversed, if that makes sense. Meaning the REGULAR size is larger then the LARGER version.........
That's not what I'm talking about - that only increases the text size. I mean the actual browser WINDOW.
What size screen are you viewing the photos on? Is your browser set to "full screen"?
Check out the two screenshots I just grabbed. The first was with my browser window reduced - notice how the "large" image is smaller than the background image.
The second screenshot is when I maximized my browser (full screen). The "larger" image now takes up the whole screen and is rendered at full size
- Luke
On Firefox there is an option icon under settings to go full screen or just use F11 key to toggle it. So, again I'm not sure as it appears others are having the issue too and I've never had to use full screen to see the larger version transition to being bigger then the regular size in the past.
BTW: I also tried using Edge and got the same results when going from regular to larger version.
Thanks again, Luke. This might take a software propeller head to figure out what we're seeing as of late........
I use Google Chrome, Windows 10 at home and Windows XP in the office (don't laught - not compatible old software). I have not tried other browsers, but will try tonight at home and report back.
I do think that the problem is at NPN, though.
If anybody would like copies of the jpgs that I uploaded in order to make your own comparisons please let me know, I will be happy to send you the exact same files that I uploaded.
Can you post links to photos that don't appear right? Thanks!
BTW, Luke is correct - that larger photo will auto-size to the browser window, the intermediate (720) does not. This is especially evident in vertical (portrait) photos, where the larger may actually render smaller to fit the browser window. If that is what you're seeing, then the behavior is normal.
What is the resolution of the screen you are viewing these on? You will only get about 85% of the screen res, depending on the browser. Example: a 1300 pixel (width) screen res will show the photo at around 1100 pixels, even if you upload it at 1600 pixels.
I would suggest viewing them on a larger screen to test it for yourself.
I didn't put my finger on it, especially since I've just recently come back to view and post, but I do recall having to scroll vertically on very tall images 1200px and up. This actually made me chose to only create 1000px images on the vertical for posting. Now there's no scrolling.
My question for Jim then is, when was the change made that started detecting screen/resolution size and auto adjusted the uploaded images to fit within the browser window? If there was a change.
Also, I've notice the same thing Alberto mentions, and that is in some cases, the larger view is softer. I think this is a related issue if indeed the larger uploads are resized to fit an individual's monitor and browser.
With all the variables (different monitors, resolutions and uploaded sizes) it makes sense why not everyone is experiencing the same issues.
Not to confuse things and trying to simplify what I see using a 24" monitor with resolution set at 1920 X 1200.
I posted this image the other day at 1200 x 996 as the LARGER version. I then posted the regular size at 720 x 598.
When I open the post up to viewing of the regular or standard image it seems normal to me as in the past. However, when I click on the image to go for the LARGER version it actually opens up just slightly smaller then the regular image outlined behind it.
http://www.naturephotographers.net/imagecritique/ic.cgi?a=vp&pr=231851&CGISESSID=a02fc36f773def5276200cd23ae2cbc9&u=2726&title_action=
Bill, I'm not sure - I'm on a 1366X768 laptop right now and see exactly what you describe. On my 1920X1200 monitor, the large photos are MUCH larger (I could do a screen shot and measure them in PS). As Lon described above, it's all a function of screen res and browser settings.
Nothing has changed as far as I can tell since we implemented the lightbox script.
I agree with Bill - something changed in the last week or so. I see the same issue on both Chrome and Edge. If you go to:
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B1Z_c-JK5guHXzRyUVJkcWswYXc&usp=sharing
you can download four of my recent images, plus another one that I posted about a year ago, when the maximum size was less than now. You have to download them, NOT look at them on Google drive, as that is not full resolution. These are the exact files that I uploaded. It used to be that when I opened the large view on NPN the image would pop up at the same size as the one that I uploaded, and with the same resolution. Not anymore. Now the image opens smaller (though larger than the small image), and with significantly lower resolution. Check for example the layering on Zabiskie Point, or the details of the canyons in the Panamints in the background of that photo, or the details on the camellia and dry leaves. I am sure that I am not imagining this!
My screen is set at 1920 x1080, and has always been, I have not changed anything, ever, since I bought this computer/monitor about 3 years ago.
Perhaps it is not an NPN issue, but some change in the way that browsers process input - but then why would it happen on both Chrome and Edge?
I hope this helps!
Here's a thought - I think many used the old method to view details in the photo for critique purposes. I do not believe it would be much of a job to leave the current lightbox viewer in place and add a Detailed View link under the 720 to open up the large version at full resolution, just like the VIEW LARGE PHOTO link we had before. So clicking the 720 would open the lightbox viewer to enlarge the photo as much as allowed by window size, and using the Detailed View text link would open it up full size regardless of screen res.
Let me know your thoughts on this idea and I will get with DtP to implement.
Jim, it might be just a coincidence that some of us over the last few days have encountered what seemed like a change. I'd worked a day or so without saying anything and then contacted Mark Seaver to see if he saw anything different. He stated he did not see any issues.
However, after playing with thoughts Luke had shared along with your comment about removing any menu / tool bars I was able to get a LARGER image by clicking on the 720. Luke had brought up the issue about "full screen", which I tried a couple times but did not see any change. But I'd been toggling "full screen" with the original image already opened to full size. It took closing and reopening the image after going "full screen" to get that to work correctly.
So, if not a big deal or $$$ maybe your suggestion with the LARGER VIEW link will solve some browser window issues across the board even if it requires people to scroll to see the image at full scale.
I agree with Bill that somethingh changed, as I see the exact same behavior that he sees. I made no changes to my setup, and I see it on two different computers. However, I also see that nothing changed at NPN. I wonder if people using Macs are also seeing the change? If not, I suspect that this may be the result of a Windows "update" on which we have no control, nor are we told what these "updates" do.
Your solution would of course be great, if we can afford it. If $$$ are an issue, would it be possible to suggest voluntary contributions frpm active members?
Just some thoughts
Bear in mind that the proportion of the photo will directly impact this as well, because you will run out of vertical space (especially with "wide screen" laptop displays) long before you'll run out of room horizontally. For example, a square crop sized to 1000 pixels will not render full size in the lightbox viewer even on a 1920X1200 monitor - I've found around 900 pixels is the max for the vertical dimension on a 1920X1200 screen.
With most browsers, you will need to keep the vertical size under about 75% of the vertical screen resolution (even on landscape-orientation photos) to avoid down sizing in the lightbox viewer, because the browser occupies around 25% of the vertical height with menu bars, depending on which bars you have activated. On a 1366X768 display, anything larger than around 570 pixels in height will be down sized. Example: if you upload a 1000X700 large version, the lightbox will downsize it on a 1366X768 (runs out of vertical space) but it will render full size on a 1680X1050 or larger screen.
Another consideration: if you upload a square-cropped intermediate (720) photo sized to 720 X 720, it will render full size on the comments screen. Upon clicking the 720 on a 1366X768 display, the large version (regardless of the size it was uploaded) will actually appear smaller in the lightbox viewer due to sizing to the browser window.
I will be working on installing the proposed DETAIL VIEW link to access the uploaded larger version directly with no resizing, just like we had with the VIEW LARGE PHOTO before we installed the lightbox viewer. When done, you will actually have three viewing options: the 720 intermediate (no resize) as displayed on the comments screen, the lightbox view (resized if needed to fit the browser window/screen resolution) and the full size as uploaded which will usually require scrolling but will be useful for examining detail in the photo.
I'll be talking with DtP and share your observations with him. If he can add any insight, I will certainly share it with you.
I am just wondering if DtP updated the Viewer script when he did the update to the Comment dialog box in order for that to work properly with MS Edge? If so, that might explain why some are seeing issues in other browsers.
I am not seeing any of the issues reported. My monitor resolution is 2560X1440. My Edge an IE 11 window widths are set to a bit over half the horizontal screen dimension.
My large image size are set to 1000px for landscape format and 800px for portrait format.
--P
However, going forward I'm sure all these updates and changes from a variety of OS / browser uses the suggested link by Jim might be the overall long term catchall. Although I'm in a second guessing mode on what might be considered a long term catchall...
- There was a line under the gallery thumbnails from an unexplained change in a cellpadding setting
- We changed a style sheet setting for the forum topics listing that was justifying text on the topics page
We discussed the Detail View link and will have that done this week (problems are opportunities to make enhancements)!