Posted by Igor Doncov on August 3, 2016 at 9:43 PM
Recently I have read persuasive articles on the subject of when to go B&W versus color. The idea simply stated is that if color plays a part in the composition the image should be rendered in color, otherwise not. Another words, if the eye is drawn to color in some ways then it's part of the creation.
After having time to consider this a bit I came to realize that the author, Bruce Birnbaum, is primarily a B&W photographer and that may be influencing him in his approach. Although it makes a lot of sense to me.
I I would be greatly interested in your opinion and perhaps a discussion on the subject. I'm also noticing a greater percentage of B&W's in landscape recently and wondering if others are wrestling with similar thoughts.
Posted by Tom Falley on August 4, 2016 at 12:08 AM
Igor:
A good topic! Recently I rendered both a B&W and color image of Mt Huntington. In this particular case my preference is for the color image as there is a significant portion of the lower rock pyramid that stands out better in the color, but is somewhat more monotonous in the B&W.
I generally believe that B&W gives up more room for creative departure and individual non representative vision.
Cheers: Tom
Posted by Igor Doncov on August 4, 2016 at 7:44 AM
Tom,
I agree that your images have considerable more impact in B&W than in color and the choice is right. Dave Dillemouth, however, shoots the same subject in color at a time when color is rich and gets better results for his compositions in color. Kathy Barhardt is very aware of color and creates compositions with it mind (see most recent post).
Birnbaum writes that color is about beauty and b&w is about emotion. Says that drama queen A Adams reached his highly emotional state with tone exaggeration. Sunrises and sunsets, however, all get their 'push' from strong colors. These subjects look terrible in B&W. So I'm not sure about his conclusions. Come to think of it I think emotion is a component of beauty and is part of everything we shoot, regardless of the medium.
I do agree that exaggerated colors look gaudy and vulgar but exaggerated tones are quite acceptable. Perhaps because b&w is by definition an abstraction and therefore not confined to reality as much in our minds. We give it freedom which we are reluctant to do in color.
Posted by Bill Chambers on August 4, 2016 at 12:02 PM
Interesting discussion, Igor. The article's claim (that bw is default unless color is part of the composition) makes sense coming from someone who shoots mostly bw
But it begs a few questions:
Is the the choice of location, time of day based on color?
Is the photographer's eye more tuned in to color?
Does the scene have high color contrast or tonal contrast?
For me, I think I see bw potential in a scene in the field and get a sense that is what I'm aiming for...light and shadow and line and texture drew me to the composition. In color images, it's often the color that grabs me first (purple and green or blue and gold, or reds and blacks or something like that).
On second thought, maybe that is what the author meant?
I agree with your conclusion that we give B&W far more latitude in exaggeration than color as is it much more abstract in its nature. I don't see in B&W and to my eye, more extreme B&W tones have a more "natural" or perhaps "acceptable" look than extreme colors, which strike my eye as very unnatural. I prefer to see colors that at least approach what I would expect to see if I was in the photo location. B&W lacks that more concrete frame of reference and therefore gets a whole lot more latitude for extremes.
Is the author Bruce Barnbaum rather than Birnbaum?
Posted by Igor Doncov on August 5, 2016 at 7:26 PM
Harley,
Yes you are correct. It's Bruce Barnbaum, author of The Art of Photography. This is an excellent thought provoking book to my way of thinking. He also has an excellent discussion on abstract images and what constitutes a good abstract. Much of the book is devoted to film so you're buying information that's not that useful. But he clearly is a first rate photographer. His black and white images are amazing.
I agree with your conclusion that we give B&W far more latitude in exaggeration than color as is it much more abstract in its nature. I don't see in B&W and to my eye, more extreme B&W tones have a more "natural" or perhaps "acceptable" look than extreme colors, which strike my eye as very unnatural.
I certainly agree with this. The degree of manipulation of grey scale tones can be taken much further than color can be. For certain images, the ability to enhance contrast and separate tonal values, especially in the mid-tones, can make a rather 'documentary' color image a very evocative black and white. The inverse is also true: Some images are carried by color and may not have the same emotional impact in black and white.
I do not 'see' in grey scale either, but with practice it is possible to predict how a scene will look in B&W. This is the essence of visualization that underlies traditional black and white photography, and, if you will permit me to say it, a skill that every photographer should learn and put into practice.
--P
Posted by Luke Ormand on August 6, 2016 at 7:44 PM
My biggest reason for processing an imagine in B&W is based on what kind of "details" are in the image. Without contrast and texture and being able to cross the entire spectrum from white to black, a B&W image would tend to look "flat". I also think that, with very few exceptions, a photo looks best as B&W or Color. It''s rare that it works with both
In my mind, color photography and b&w photography are two different mediums of expression (e.g. watercolor painting vs. acrylic painting). Both have their strengths and weaknesses. Furthermore, both can be utilized effectively to portray beauty and/or evoke emotion(s). From an individual's perspective, it is possible to come up with a list of conditions that dictate whether a particular scene should be rendered in color or b&w. However, IMHO such a list is more a reflection of that individual's taste rather than the scene being photographed.
As you know, I have been working exclusively in color for a while now (actually more than a decade). When I come across a scene that I feel won't translate well into a color photograph of my liking, I just let it pass.
Regarding how much one can push a color image vs. a b&w image, I'd say it depends on the intent and the (technical) expertise of the practitioner. There are amazing color images, where tones and hues have been greatly exaggerated; similarly one can find many examples of wonderful b&w photography employing a limited range of (subtle) tones.
Posted by Igor Doncov on August 9, 2016 at 1:41 AM
Anil
Color seems to play a greater role in some of your images than others. The series of images on 'fissures' were in many ways studies of color. Perhaps ''color" compositions are more obvious in abstracts like those than others that resemble reality. Yet color is a funny thing. You can have barely a hint of color and it's a strong color creation. You can also have an image of a single color with various tints and it's stronger than a B&W. Basically, to me, it all relates to the subject as you see it. I don't think beauty by itself is that valuable. An image that has great composition whether in color or B&W is weak unless it makes a statement.
I do agree that it's difficult to come up with 'rules' yet if we don't how does one define his craft. We can't just say that because you like something personally it's good.
Posted by gary phillips on August 13, 2016 at 8:22 PM
Very interesting, Igor. For me, and I may be the exception, color just doesn't translate emotionally as well as black and white. I think coming into photography without a lot of preconceptions or awareness of established rules, I gravitated right away to black and white. I see images in the field that way and struggle when I know that color will be the predominate factor in the composition. I'm not opposed to strong color, it just confuses me.
The way I see it, why does there have to be rules. What defines good photography or art for that matter? What makes one composition better than another? It all comes down to taste and an appreciation for what is good. I personally do what pleases me. If it works for someone else, great. I agree with the sentiment " I don't know what good is, but I know it when I see it."
Perhaps the ability to push tones in black and white is attractive to those who can recognize that the potential exist to do so. Is it different than pulling a wide range of color and luminosity from a wide variety of PP techniques? I don't think so. If, in the end we are all pursuing a craft that is, in fact, without limits. That's the beauty of it. The only limits that exist are the ones we place on ourselves, either by limits of skill or an aversion to certain techniques. So whether an image is rendered in color or black and white, it should only be judged by the story it tells and if, in fact, it appeals to you personally.
Posted by Jim Jirka on December 6, 2016 at 3:15 PM
Black and white is so much more than if the image doesn't work in color then I will just make a black and white. While color images are about the colors, black and white images are more about tones and contrast relationships. I agree that with black and white there is much more latitude in making the image your's creatively. And while I do not see in black and white either, I can usually translate the colors to tones before I press the shutter.
Seeing in black in white can be learned and all experiences with what works and what doesn't can be put to use in visualizing an image in black and white.
Discussion
12 repliesAfter having time to consider this a bit I came to realize that the author, Bruce Birnbaum, is primarily a B&W photographer and that may be influencing him in his approach. Although it makes a lot of sense to me.
I I would be greatly interested in your opinion and perhaps a discussion on the subject. I'm also noticing a greater percentage of B&W's in landscape recently and wondering if others are wrestling with similar thoughts.
A good topic! Recently I rendered both a B&W and color image of Mt Huntington. In this particular case my preference is for the color image as there is a significant portion of the lower rock pyramid that stands out better in the color, but is somewhat more monotonous in the B&W.
I generally believe that B&W gives up more room for creative departure and individual non representative vision.
Cheers: Tom
I agree that your images have considerable more impact in B&W than in color and the choice is right. Dave Dillemouth, however, shoots the same subject in color at a time when color is rich and gets better results for his compositions in color. Kathy Barhardt is very aware of color and creates compositions with it mind (see most recent post).
Birnbaum writes that color is about beauty and b&w is about emotion. Says that drama queen A Adams reached his highly emotional state with tone exaggeration. Sunrises and sunsets, however, all get their 'push' from strong colors. These subjects look terrible in B&W. So I'm not sure about his conclusions. Come to think of it I think emotion is a component of beauty and is part of everything we shoot, regardless of the medium.
I do agree that exaggerated colors look gaudy and vulgar but exaggerated tones are quite acceptable. Perhaps because b&w is by definition an abstraction and therefore not confined to reality as much in our minds. We give it freedom which we are reluctant to do in color.
But it begs a few questions:
Is the the choice of location, time of day based on color?
Is the photographer's eye more tuned in to color?
Does the scene have high color contrast or tonal contrast?
For me, I think I see bw potential in a scene in the field and get a sense that is what I'm aiming for...light and shadow and line and texture drew me to the composition. In color images, it's often the color that grabs me first (purple and green or blue and gold, or reds and blacks or something like that).
On second thought, maybe that is what the author meant?
Great discussion!
ML
I agree with your conclusion that we give B&W far more latitude in exaggeration than color as is it much more abstract in its nature. I don't see in B&W and to my eye, more extreme B&W tones have a more "natural" or perhaps "acceptable" look than extreme colors, which strike my eye as very unnatural. I prefer to see colors that at least approach what I would expect to see if I was in the photo location. B&W lacks that more concrete frame of reference and therefore gets a whole lot more latitude for extremes.
Is the author Bruce Barnbaum rather than Birnbaum?
Yes you are correct. It's Bruce Barnbaum, author of The Art of Photography. This is an excellent thought provoking book to my way of thinking. He also has an excellent discussion on abstract images and what constitutes a good abstract. Much of the book is devoted to film so you're buying information that's not that useful. But he clearly is a first rate photographer. His black and white images are amazing.
I do not 'see' in grey scale either, but with practice it is possible to predict how a scene will look in B&W. This is the essence of visualization that underlies traditional black and white photography, and, if you will permit me to say it, a skill that every photographer should learn and put into practice.
--P
In my mind, color photography and b&w photography are two different mediums of expression (e.g. watercolor painting vs. acrylic painting). Both have their strengths and weaknesses. Furthermore, both can be utilized effectively to portray beauty and/or evoke emotion(s). From an individual's perspective, it is possible to come up with a list of conditions that dictate whether a particular scene should be rendered in color or b&w. However, IMHO such a list is more a reflection of that individual's taste rather than the scene being photographed.
As you know, I have been working exclusively in color for a while now (actually more than a decade). When I come across a scene that I feel won't translate well into a color photograph of my liking, I just let it pass.
Regarding how much one can push a color image vs. a b&w image, I'd say it depends on the intent and the (technical) expertise of the practitioner. There are amazing color images, where tones and hues have been greatly exaggerated; similarly one can find many examples of wonderful b&w photography employing a limited range of (subtle) tones.
Color seems to play a greater role in some of your images than others. The series of images on 'fissures' were in many ways studies of color. Perhaps ''color" compositions are more obvious in abstracts like those than others that resemble reality. Yet color is a funny thing. You can have barely a hint of color and it's a strong color creation. You can also have an image of a single color with various tints and it's stronger than a B&W. Basically, to me, it all relates to the subject as you see it. I don't think beauty by itself is that valuable. An image that has great composition whether in color or B&W is weak unless it makes a statement.
I do agree that it's difficult to come up with 'rules' yet if we don't how does one define his craft. We can't just say that because you like something personally it's good.
The way I see it, why does there have to be rules. What defines good photography or art for that matter? What makes one composition better than another? It all comes down to taste and an appreciation for what is good. I personally do what pleases me. If it works for someone else, great. I agree with the sentiment " I don't know what good is, but I know it when I see it."
Perhaps the ability to push tones in black and white is attractive to those who can recognize that the potential exist to do so. Is it different than pulling a wide range of color and luminosity from a wide variety of PP techniques? I don't think so. If, in the end we are all pursuing a craft that is, in fact, without limits. That's the beauty of it. The only limits that exist are the ones we place on ourselves, either by limits of skill or an aversion to certain techniques. So whether an image is rendered in color or black and white, it should only be judged by the story it tells and if, in fact, it appeals to you personally.
Seeing in black in white can be learned and all experiences with what works and what doesn't can be put to use in visualizing an image in black and white.