Just got back in from three days in the sub-Arctic bush. Mosquitoes, black flies and sand flies as only northern latitudes have.
We purchased a product called Herbal Armor made by All Terrain. While three days is rather limited for testing, at this point I find it to be as effective or more effective than any Deet based product I have used.
It is based on natural oils, citronella being the single largest component. Yeah, you walk around smelling like a candle.
How good is it? I did, on one day, eventually need to wear a bug helmet as they were so thick they were being inhaled and ingested. Didn't bite though prior to putting on the helmet.
Posted by Kent Staubus on June 6, 2006 at 12:51 AM
I've been to the Arctic several times. Not one of the non-DEET sprays will work, with one exception I'll get to. The ONLY thing that works on flies is the netting. No spray will bother them other than spraying the generarl area with something like Yard Guard. You'd go broke trying to do that up there. Or around here even. There is a very good mesh net suit that has a built in spacer between the mesh and you so nothing can stick through the mesh and bite. It's: click here
The other fabric that will work is something like RynoSkin: click here
Cabelas also lists bug proof mittens and so on. Now for the only spray that will work for bugs other than mosquitos. It called Repel Permanone. Available at Walmart Sporting Goods dept. in a blue and orange can. Make sure it says PERMANONE. Cost is about five bucks. This is a natural insecticide made from chrysanthamums. It goes on CLOTHING, not skin. You spray your clothes and it lasts for quite awhile. The BuggOff brand of clothing has this sprayed on it. I use it myself and it does kill ticks and chiggers (only thing I've found that does.) It also keeps the flies off you where it was sprayed (remember, spray clothing only. Cover bare skin with netting.) Everyone in my family has a full bug mesh suit for Far North trips. Really though, our main strategy is to go in mid August, when bug numbers are falling. Flies are mostly gone by the end of July in many places. We have stupid buffalo gnats here that are actually small flies. They will swarm you by the hundreds and leave huge itchy welts that can last for two weeks! They will be gone by the end of June. In the meantime I have my bug suit in my car.
In my wife & I's experience, NONE of the natural repellants do jack. The new "cutter Advanced" with picardin does NOT protect my wife, and is clearly not as good as DEET on me.
Dave,
I live in the northern latitudes, so anything about mosquitos is of interest to me! I haven't heard of the repellent that you're talking about, but if I see it I'll sure try it. I just bought something with picardin in it, which Kent said does not work. I have not tried it before, so I don't know. DEET works, but I get tired of being DEET-covered all summer, and it's not good to have it around some materials.
Genny
I found Picaridin to be pretty effective. The only problem is it doesn't stay on for very long. After a couple of hours of hiking and sweating, you need to re-apply. On a 5-7 day backpacking trip I went through almost a full bottle of it.
In Canada, Deet as been limited to a 30% concentration. I still have some 100% from a few years ago before legislation reduced it. I found this product to be as effective, if not more so, than any Deet based product I have used in the last couple of years since we moved here.
It is my understanding that insects and repellents will act differently on various individuals according to skin and other factors. The camp cook said the bugs were as bad as anything he had seen on the Barrens. One afternoon I had to stop shooting as they were swarming so thickly the camera was picking them up.
Three days in the bush under these conditions and I have come away with hardly a bite, so obviously I'll continue to use it until something more effective is found.
Dave
Posted by Kent Staubus on June 6, 2006 at 11:38 AM
I agree that picardin etc. seems to work differently on different people. That's why I mentioned it worked somewhat on me but not my wife. My wife is the type that bugs will fly for miles to come bite though! Heck, I nibble on her a little myself. I'm not a fan of the 100% DEET stuff either, and really I don't think it's needed. The 3M UltraThon is a timed release DEET product and does seem to have staying power with a lower concentration. Yes, the mosquitos here in eastern SD and much of MN get so thick at times that they will block your shots when they swarm the lens. That's when I flush them up in the air give & them a quick blast of Yard Guard so I can get my shot. One more reason why I love winter photography!
BTW, the Repel Permanone will last on clothing for a couple of weeks. Here's a link to more info:
If you want some more 100% DEET, I could buy you some and send it. I think restricting something like that is just silly. Give people the warnings/info they need and let them make their own decision, I say. Really though, the UltraThon is just as effective.
All the travel med reccomendations are 25% DEET. More doesn't help and any non DEET product is not as good. If you check with a CDC certified doctor he/she will confirm this statement. For travel to any area that has a risk of LYME, or Malaria, Denge Fever, etc. the 25% DEET is the preferred product. Many are on the market. Deep Woods Off is the most readilly available.
Posted by Scott Elliot on June 6, 2006 at 11:56 PM
I have not had any luck at all with citronella based products. I got the impression that some of the one's I tried just made you taste better so the bugs would leave the guys wearing deet alone.
Thanks for the offer of the 100% Deet, but I'm trying to avoid modern chemistry as much as I can. Even stopped eating microwave popcorn since I found out the bags are lined with Teflon. Mind you I live about a mile from the world's largest store of arsenic!
The Repeal Permanone sounds similar to a product I heard about several years ago. It was developed for the American military and sprayed on clothes. It was supposed to last through seven washings.
While I might try something stronger for the diseases Ed mentions, they are not in my area. For the present however, the Herbal Armor seems to hold the biting things off as effectively as any Deet product I have tried.
Some of the aboriginals in the remote communities in the Barrens swear by Avon Skin So Soft. I find that to be completely ineffective. Different strokes for different folks.
Discussion
8 repliesWe purchased a product called Herbal Armor made by All Terrain. While three days is rather limited for testing, at this point I find it to be as effective or more effective than any Deet based product I have used.
It is based on natural oils, citronella being the single largest component. Yeah, you walk around smelling like a candle.
How good is it? I did, on one day, eventually need to wear a bug helmet as they were so thick they were being inhaled and ingested. Didn't bite though prior to putting on the helmet.
At this point I'll be a repeat customer.
http://www.allterrainco.com/
Dave
click here
The other fabric that will work is something like RynoSkin:
click here
Cabelas also lists bug proof mittens and so on. Now for the only spray that will work for bugs other than mosquitos. It called Repel Permanone. Available at Walmart Sporting Goods dept. in a blue and orange can. Make sure it says PERMANONE. Cost is about five bucks. This is a natural insecticide made from chrysanthamums. It goes on CLOTHING, not skin. You spray your clothes and it lasts for quite awhile. The BuggOff brand of clothing has this sprayed on it. I use it myself and it does kill ticks and chiggers (only thing I've found that does.) It also keeps the flies off you where it was sprayed (remember, spray clothing only. Cover bare skin with netting.) Everyone in my family has a full bug mesh suit for Far North trips. Really though, our main strategy is to go in mid August, when bug numbers are falling. Flies are mostly gone by the end of July in many places. We have stupid buffalo gnats here that are actually small flies. They will swarm you by the hundreds and leave huge itchy welts that can last for two weeks! They will be gone by the end of June. In the meantime I have my bug suit in my car.
In my wife & I's experience, NONE of the natural repellants do jack. The new "cutter Advanced" with picardin does NOT protect my wife, and is clearly not as good as DEET on me.
Kent in SD
I live in the northern latitudes, so anything about mosquitos is of interest to me! I haven't heard of the repellent that you're talking about, but if I see it I'll sure try it. I just bought something with picardin in it, which Kent said does not work. I have not tried it before, so I don't know. DEET works, but I get tired of being DEET-covered all summer, and it's not good to have it around some materials.
Genny
Guy
In Canada, Deet as been limited to a 30% concentration. I still have some 100% from a few years ago before legislation reduced it. I found this product to be as effective, if not more so, than any Deet based product I have used in the last couple of years since we moved here.
It is my understanding that insects and repellents will act differently on various individuals according to skin and other factors. The camp cook said the bugs were as bad as anything he had seen on the Barrens. One afternoon I had to stop shooting as they were swarming so thickly the camera was picking them up.
Three days in the bush under these conditions and I have come away with hardly a bite, so obviously I'll continue to use it until something more effective is found.
Dave
BTW, the Repel Permanone will last on clothing for a couple of weeks. Here's a link to more info:
http://cgi.ebay.com/REPEL-PERMANONE-INSECT-TICK-MOSQUITO-CLOTHING-GEAR_W0QQitemZ8814258353QQcategoryZ52483QQcmdZViewItem
If you want some more 100% DEET, I could buy you some and send it. I think restricting something like that is just silly. Give people the warnings/info they need and let them make their own decision, I say. Really though, the UltraThon is just as effective.
Kent in SD
Thanks for the offer of the 100% Deet, but I'm trying to avoid modern chemistry as much as I can. Even stopped eating microwave popcorn since I found out the bags are lined with Teflon. Mind you I live about a mile from the world's largest store of arsenic!
The Repeal Permanone sounds similar to a product I heard about several years ago. It was developed for the American military and sprayed on clothes. It was supposed to last through seven washings.
While I might try something stronger for the diseases Ed mentions, they are not in my area. For the present however, the Herbal Armor seems to hold the biting things off as effectively as any Deet product I have tried.
Some of the aboriginals in the remote communities in the Barrens swear by Avon Skin So Soft. I find that to be completely ineffective. Different strokes for different folks.
Dave