Posted by Rene de Heer on June 13, 2006 at 11:07 AM
I have posted a Golden oriole and despite the fact that i know the image is in focus i always seem to struggle with getting the USM spot on....its not the image its me! Give me some simple tips to get it right cause its doing my brain in!
Rene de Heer
Hi Rene,
My method is to sharpen as much as possible without getting halo's, so I pick an area where they are likely to appear (a high contrast region i.e. often at the junction of beak and background) and watch this for halo's.
This is a start, I sure a bundle of tips are coming your way.
Tim
Posted by Rene de Heer on June 13, 2006 at 11:17 AM
I should add i use PK sharpener for prints. I printed the Oriole and it looks great! I have even been thinking of getting the fred Miranda plug in or any other plug in for the JPEGS.......the PK sharpener doesnt work very well for JPEGS.
Rene de Heer
Having just had another good look at your Golden Oriole it's handy being able to compare the original with the re-post.
On my screen the original (eye area) does have a degree of softness about it but I could see it was just a USM issue and not that the image itself was out of focus.
The re-post confirms this,as the eye and beak look much sharper thanks to the extra USM,although the extra global sharpening has now brought out the noise in the background.
I generally don't pay too much attention to web image sharpness as so much detail is lost going from a full size original down to such a small jpeg.
I also find it very hard if not impossible to judge critical sharpness at such a small size.
My prefered method for sharpening images for NPN,particularly subjects against a plain background, is to make a quick selection of the background using the magic wand tool,I check everything has been included,i.e. everything I don't want sharpened,by switching to Quick Mask mode,if any other areas need to be included or excluded,I just add or subtract them using the paint brush whilst still in Quick Mask mode,I then switch to normal mode and Invert the selection so that everything is masked off apart from my bird (and usually the perch). I usually save the selection at this point.
I then start sharpening my selected area by using USM at the following settings Amount =100, Radius=0.2 and Threshold =0.
I first go to Select-Modify-Contract and enter 4 pixels.I then apply one or two passes of USM at the above settings.I then Select-Modify-Expand and enter 2 pixels and apply another one or two passes of USM. Back to Select-Modify-Expand and enter 2 pixels (I should now be left with my original selection).I again apply another one or two passes of USM.
I then de-select and apply another two or three passes of USM but this time to the whole of the image.
The total number of USM passes at 100,0.2,0 usually varies between 5 and 10 depending on the image,I usually add another one untill halos start becoming evident and then back-off by using Edit-Step backward.
It sounds a lot of messing around but it only takes minimal time to do.
The reason I use this method is firstly because I'm only sharpening the important bits,and not,for instance the background,where it will only exagerate any noise.
By modifying the selection using the contract and expand command I'm applying slightly more sharpening to the bulk of the main subject,keeping any halo's on the subjects edge to a minimum.
I also find it handy being able to apply small doses and then backing off one step rather than all in one stage.
That's the method I use,probably not the best way or quickest but it seems to do the job ok so I've stuck with it.
Hope this helps.
Posted by Sean Bolton on June 13, 2006 at 12:48 PM
Hi Rene
A quick and simple method is just to apply USM at a 'standard' amount. Canon generally recommend amount=300, radius=0.3, threshold =0. That's a single pass method which works fine for most images, although you might want to vary the amount from between 200 and 400 depending on the sharpness of the original file.
I tend to use Justin's method of a repetitive USM at lower settings, amount=120, radius=0.2, threshold=0. Usually 3 to 5 applications is enough. Also with this method I might apply two passes to the entire image, then select the main focus area (head/eye/etc) and apply further USM just to this specific area.
Whilst there are several more approaches to sharpening, I think either of these approaches is fine for the majority of images.
"Give me some simple tips to get it right cause its doing my brain in"...you mean sales-people have a brain , thought they where replaced by calculators & cash symbols at birth
I thought Phil had mentioned his sharpening settings somewhere - had a bit dig for you and you can find them mentioned in this topic, scroll down a bit and you'll see the technique fleshed out a bit further down the posting list.
There are so many different ways.... Like you I use PK for prints but find their web or screen sharpening very poor.
I tend to use the 100 , 0.2 , 0 , fade to luminosity multiple pass method, I don't bother with masks etc, when the image is as ssharp as I want it I will just use the history brush to remove the sharpening from areas where I don't want it, i.e the background, works well for me.
Discussion
8 repliesRene de Heer
My method is to sharpen as much as possible without getting halo's, so I pick an area where they are likely to appear (a high contrast region i.e. often at the junction of beak and background) and watch this for halo's.
This is a start, I sure a bundle of tips are coming your way.
Tim
Rene de Heer
Email me and I'll send you an action for sizing for the web.
info at john-mactavish.co.uk
John
Having just had another good look at your Golden Oriole it's handy being able to compare the original with the re-post.
On my screen the original (eye area) does have a degree of softness about it but I could see it was just a USM issue and not that the image itself was out of focus.
The re-post confirms this,as the eye and beak look much sharper thanks to the extra USM,although the extra global sharpening has now brought out the noise in the background.
I generally don't pay too much attention to web image sharpness as so much detail is lost going from a full size original down to such a small jpeg.
I also find it very hard if not impossible to judge critical sharpness at such a small size.
My prefered method for sharpening images for NPN,particularly subjects against a plain background, is to make a quick selection of the background using the magic wand tool,I check everything has been included,i.e. everything I don't want sharpened,by switching to Quick Mask mode,if any other areas need to be included or excluded,I just add or subtract them using the paint brush whilst still in Quick Mask mode,I then switch to normal mode and Invert the selection so that everything is masked off apart from my bird (and usually the perch). I usually save the selection at this point.
I then start sharpening my selected area by using USM at the following settings Amount =100, Radius=0.2 and Threshold =0.
I first go to Select-Modify-Contract and enter 4 pixels.I then apply one or two passes of USM at the above settings.I then Select-Modify-Expand and enter 2 pixels and apply another one or two passes of USM. Back to Select-Modify-Expand and enter 2 pixels (I should now be left with my original selection).I again apply another one or two passes of USM.
I then de-select and apply another two or three passes of USM but this time to the whole of the image.
The total number of USM passes at 100,0.2,0 usually varies between 5 and 10 depending on the image,I usually add another one untill halos start becoming evident and then back-off by using Edit-Step backward.
It sounds a lot of messing around but it only takes minimal time to do.
The reason I use this method is firstly because I'm only sharpening the important bits,and not,for instance the background,where it will only exagerate any noise.
By modifying the selection using the contract and expand command I'm applying slightly more sharpening to the bulk of the main subject,keeping any halo's on the subjects edge to a minimum.
I also find it handy being able to apply small doses and then backing off one step rather than all in one stage.
That's the method I use,probably not the best way or quickest but it seems to do the job ok so I've stuck with it.
Hope this helps.
A quick and simple method is just to apply USM at a 'standard' amount. Canon generally recommend amount=300, radius=0.3, threshold =0. That's a single pass method which works fine for most images, although you might want to vary the amount from between 200 and 400 depending on the sharpness of the original file.
I tend to use Justin's method of a repetitive USM at lower settings, amount=120, radius=0.2, threshold=0. Usually 3 to 5 applications is enough. Also with this method I might apply two passes to the entire image, then select the main focus area (head/eye/etc) and apply further USM just to this specific area.
Whilst there are several more approaches to sharpening, I think either of these approaches is fine for the majority of images.
cheers
Sean
Check out the following (of the billions of links to sites offering advice on this matter).
http://www.pbase.com/alibenn/3__masks_and_selective_sharpening
He photographs birds.
Regards
"Give me some simple tips to get it right cause its doing my brain in"...you mean sales-people have a brain
I thought Phil had mentioned his sharpening settings somewhere - had a bit dig for you and you can find them mentioned in this topic, scroll down a bit and you'll see the technique fleshed out a bit further down the posting list.
HTH
There are so many different ways.... Like you I use PK for prints but find their web or screen sharpening very poor.
I tend to use the 100 , 0.2 , 0 , fade to luminosity multiple pass method, I don't bother with masks etc, when the image is as ssharp as I want it I will just use the history brush to remove the sharpening from areas where I don't want it, i.e the background, works well for me.
HTH