Posted by bill meikle on June 14, 2006 at 11:59 AM
Hi, I need some advice, I've reached the point where people (must be crazy) are wanting to buy my photographs. Any advice on pricing, terms and conditions, copyright, sources of info etc etc??
Any and all advice welcome,
Bill
ps just back from Yellowstone and the Tetons, lots of animals around with babies, wolves, grizzlies, black bears etc etc. Weather almost too warm! Jackson was 90 degrees.
Posted by Brent Murphy on June 14, 2006 at 12:15 PM
Depends. Are you talking about selling prints, or images for publication?
Posted by bill meikle on June 14, 2006 at 12:20 PM
I think I'm talking about selling prints, to date I have not had the pleasure of having any prints published although that would be rather cool.
I didn't look back very far with regards to Copyrights, but when selling a print there are two schools of thought, you can either with a pen that writes on photographic paper or film sign you name to the image or sign on the matte of a framed image. There is already a thread on Copyrights and how to register your images that is very well done.
Pricing your images is for some based on the entire cost or estimated cost for creating the print, then any costs for framing, matting and shipping with insurance.
Personally I rarely ever sell my prints framed, mainly because I have no idea as to how a frame I pick will work in the location it is to be hung. I prefer to just have the print made, sign it and ship it to the buyer and send some framing instructions that were given to me by my local framer for the types of paper or film I produce.
In some cases I have made arrangements with my printers to drop ship for me and hot-gold foil stamp my signature on the print.
I base my pricing on my total costs per print with a percentage mark up for my profit pockets. Your profit margin is completely personal. I took a look at other photographer's work and compared my workmanship to theirs and then their rates compaired to my costs, and marked up to what I felt was fair, without gouging or under cutting too much.
This is the part whee competition may creep in, but I look at it as a good thing over all for the industry. It's healthy to all.
I hope this helps... Good Luck in your sales, you have some nice work in your online galleries!
Posted by Tony Bouchard on June 14, 2006 at 12:41 PM
Bill,
Nice Tetons collection. I was there for two days in late May and never saw the mountains!
Quick question - how far is that Scwabacher shot from the parking area? Is it easy to find? I tried to scout it out but I couldn't find the spot because I couldn't see where the mountains were.
Posted by Brent Murphy on June 14, 2006 at 12:44 PM
Well, selling prints can be a little more simple than licensing photos for publication. I would recommend looking at the web site of the photographers here on RMNP, or other photographer's web sites who seem to be selling about the same thing you're selling. This should give you an approximate going rate for your product. That is basically what I did when I decided to start listing prices on my web site. And even if you're just selling stuff to friends and family for now, I would recommend appearing as professional as possible, to practice for selling to people you don't know in the future. This means finding the best places to buy mats, frames, clear plastic bags, etc.
Terms and conditions, copyright, that doesn't matter as much when selling prints instead of licensing for publication. A print is a finished product you are selling, as opposed to selling someone the right to use an image in a specific way, for a period of time. For that, there are definitely some more legal issues to be aware of.
Make your print and sign it. Stick it in a quality poly bag with a nice backer for support, maybe throw in a little info card about caring for the print along with some bio info. That's about all I would do to start. I also include a 3"x4" Avery label on the back of the print that includes a thumbnail image, image name, catalog number and my contact info.
I would also recommend checking out the Photo Marketing forum here at NPN. Lots of good info there. Too bad they deleted all the old forums, because varieties of your same question had been asked on that forum quite a bit.
Posted by bill meikle on June 14, 2006 at 12:52 PM
let me answer Tony's questions first, others said they have been there on other occasions and not seen the mountains, we had thunderstorms and heat and sun so it was good. To get to Schwabachers landing position go right from the parking lot and in 100 yds or so there is a lake and the ground is worn down by other photographers so just follow the paths, the view is as good as anywhere in the US, the lake even indents towards grand teton and there are nice trees around. We were there at dawn from 5am-7am. Tim FItzharris's book "national park photography" tells you all these "secret" things.
Posted by bill meikle on June 14, 2006 at 12:54 PM
I went to Hobby Lobby and Michaels Art Supply and got one of those Gold or Silver Ultra Fine Point Pens that will write on most anything.
Posted by Brent Murphy on June 14, 2006 at 2:30 PM
I use Sharpie Paint pens, silver and gold. They are great for most size prints, but are probably a little too much for something as small as a 5x7 or something. For my 5x7's (with 8x10 mat board), I just sign the mat with a pencil. all other size, I use the Sharpie pen. I bought mine at Guiry's in LoDo, but you can probably find them most other craft stores.
Visit websites of pros that you know & respect and note what they are selling prints for. Sell yours at the same price.There are too many people selling their images at low prices and it's up to us to sell responsibly. The general public doesn't value nature photography as art and needs to be educated. It's important to know when to walk away from a sale because someone is unwilling to pay fair market value.
I think you should leave the copyright symbol for the back of the print.
One more question ... if you sign a photo then what kind of pen do you use, isn't it difficult to write on a printed photo???
Others have mentioned the gold and silver Sharpies but one other option to consider is signing in pencil or a black pen on a white border around the image. The pencil option works well on fine art papers such as watercolor paper and the pens are good for traditional prints. All of my print signing pens are at work right now otherwise I'd give you the name/brand of pen that I'm using. My suggestion would be to get a 5x7 or 8x10 print and head down to your local art supply store to test some pens and find one you like.
Discussion
14 repliesAny and all advice welcome,
Bill
ps just back from Yellowstone and the Tetons, lots of animals around with babies, wolves, grizzlies, black bears etc etc. Weather almost too warm! Jackson was 90 degrees.
Bill
Pricing your images is for some based on the entire cost or estimated cost for creating the print, then any costs for framing, matting and shipping with insurance.
Personally I rarely ever sell my prints framed, mainly because I have no idea as to how a frame I pick will work in the location it is to be hung. I prefer to just have the print made, sign it and ship it to the buyer and send some framing instructions that were given to me by my local framer for the types of paper or film I produce.
In some cases I have made arrangements with my printers to drop ship for me and hot-gold foil stamp my signature on the print.
I base my pricing on my total costs per print with a percentage mark up for my profit pockets. Your profit margin is completely personal. I took a look at other photographer's work and compared my workmanship to theirs and then their rates compaired to my costs, and marked up to what I felt was fair, without gouging or under cutting too much.
This is the part whee competition may creep in, but I look at it as a good thing over all for the industry. It's healthy to all.
I hope this helps... Good Luck in your sales, you have some nice work in your online galleries!
Nice Tetons collection. I was there for two days in late May and never saw the mountains!
Quick question - how far is that Scwabacher shot from the parking area? Is it easy to find? I tried to scout it out but I couldn't find the spot because I couldn't see where the mountains were.
Terms and conditions, copyright, that doesn't matter as much when selling prints instead of licensing for publication. A print is a finished product you are selling, as opposed to selling someone the right to use an image in a specific way, for a period of time. For that, there are definitely some more legal issues to be aware of.
Make your print and sign it. Stick it in a quality poly bag with a nice backer for support, maybe throw in a little info card about caring for the print along with some bio info. That's about all I would do to start. I also include a 3"x4" Avery label on the back of the print that includes a thumbnail image, image name, catalog number and my contact info.
I would also recommend checking out the Photo Marketing forum here at NPN. Lots of good info there. Too bad they deleted all the old forums, because varieties of your same question had been asked on that forum quite a bit.
Bill
Bill
Visit websites of pros that you know & respect and note what they are selling prints for. Sell yours at the same price.There are too many people selling their images at low prices and it's up to us to sell responsibly. The general public doesn't value nature photography as art and needs to be educated. It's important to know when to walk away from a sale because someone is unwilling to pay fair market value.
One exception: Give your mom a really good deal.
Good Luck,
Dave Showalter
I think you should leave the copyright symbol for the back of the print.
Others have mentioned the gold and silver Sharpies but one other option to consider is signing in pencil or a black pen on a white border around the image. The pencil option works well on fine art papers such as watercolor paper and the pens are good for traditional prints. All of my print signing pens are at work right now otherwise I'd give you the name/brand of pen that I'm using. My suggestion would be to get a 5x7 or 8x10 print and head down to your local art supply store to test some pens and find one you like.