Posted by Mark Stahlke on July 20, 2006 at 1:11 AM
This is another shot from my most excellent weekend at Harrison Flat. The light isn't as dramatic but I hope the PS work is better. I hate Photoshop and Photoshop hates me.
This is roughly the same view as the first shot but taken from farther back. The foreground rock in the first image is in the middle ground in this shot.
I was very interested in folks comments about how the previous image didn't seem level (or even close) because I struggled with that issue when I first looked at the slides. I tried rotating the first image by 10 degrees CW and the water looked very wrong. Eventually, I settled on a 1.5 degree CW rotation. I felt that the water looked right even if the land didn't.
This image shows the lay of the land a bit better and leads me to believe that the first image was close to level but it's hard to tell. The best visual cues I can find in this image are the cloud bottoms on the left and the water again. What do you think?
I know that when I'm under the dark cloth, it can be easy to lose the sense of what is level and I can't rely on what 'looks' right on the glass. The only way to know is to level the camera/tripod before shooting. I have a bubble level on my tripod, and carry a small pen-sized level that I can place on the 4x5 when necessary.
This, too, looks to be leaning left, by maybe 5 degrees give or take. Having never been to this location, I don't have a feel for how the mountains should appear, but the water feels like it's sloping away. Although the cloud bottoms on the left are level, the clouds on the right aren't. Clouds typically don't make a reliable reference for what is level anyway - especially when using a wide angle lens (you were using a 90mm in this one, too?).
In this case, there's really no good reference point for level, so leveling the tripod/camera is the way to go.
for a long time i was really particular about levelling my shots... i even use a geared tripod head to precisely dial-in the 'level-ness' of every compositon. on some shots, even though the camera is level, the image may appear slightly off-level due to the elements in the frame. i ave found that it is actually more important to make the image APPEAR level rather than have it absolutely level. even if the camera is precisely level, if the elements in the composition give the appearance of non-level-ness, people will get uncomfortable looking at the print. i now get the camera exactly level per a buble level on my camera, then if there's a discrepancy with what i'm seeing on the gg, i'll dial that in to give the feeling of level-ness.
Posted by Todd Caudle on July 20, 2006 at 11:02 AM
Note the clouds along the skyline. I would suggest that they should be at the same point vertically on the left and right sides of the image. Also, this looks like the water in the creek is running uphill. Okay for an M.C. Escher drawing, not so much for a landscape photo. If you have any images that show the peaks reflected, see if they line up vertically from peak to peak reflection.
Posted by Todd Caudle on July 20, 2006 at 11:10 AM
Hey Mark, e-mail me off-forum. I have a demo for you, but since it's not with my photos, I wouldn't want to post it here. Should clear things up.
Mark
I was up on Harrison Flat last summer and from my recollection the bench there does have a slight slope to the NE., but both of your images do seem to tilt a bit. I always use the bubble levels on my TK45S to make sure my comps are level but sometimes the compostion plays tricks with your eyes. Here is an image I made there.
Posted by Chuck Peacock on July 20, 2006 at 12:17 PM
If I'm shooting a river/creek, I use the area where the calm water is "outletting" to a faster area to reference as level, such as in the upper part of your photo. Sometimes it works anyway. This one looks better than the last, level wise.
Receding shorelines and creekbanks are always tough but I like Scott R's advice - even if your leveled in exactly but the image doesn't look right - forget the level and make it look right.
Likewise when photographing Aspens that are all leaning slightly in one direction it's sometimes better to tilt the camera with the lean IMO.
Just my 2 pennies.
As Chuck states, water is always level. You can always use the two sides of the stream as reference points. Simply take the ruler tool in PS start on one side, draw to the other side at a point directly across from the starting position, then (I think this is right as I don't have PS right now), Edit -> Rotate Canvas -> Arbitrary rotation. This should be auto populated with the correct adjustment to make the line you just drew perfectly level.
Discussion
7 repliesThis is roughly the same view as the first shot but taken from farther back. The foreground rock in the first image is in the middle ground in this shot.
I was very interested in folks comments about how the previous image didn't seem level (or even close) because I struggled with that issue when I first looked at the slides. I tried rotating the first image by 10 degrees CW and the water looked very wrong. Eventually, I settled on a 1.5 degree CW rotation. I felt that the water looked right even if the land didn't.
This image shows the lay of the land a bit better and leads me to believe that the first image was close to level but it's hard to tell. The best visual cues I can find in this image are the cloud bottoms on the left and the water again. What do you think?
Cheers,
I know that when I'm under the dark cloth, it can be easy to lose the sense of what is level and I can't rely on what 'looks' right on the glass. The only way to know is to level the camera/tripod before shooting. I have a bubble level on my tripod, and carry a small pen-sized level that I can place on the 4x5 when necessary.
This, too, looks to be leaning left, by maybe 5 degrees give or take. Having never been to this location, I don't have a feel for how the mountains should appear, but the water feels like it's sloping away. Although the cloud bottoms on the left are level, the clouds on the right aren't. Clouds typically don't make a reliable reference for what is level anyway - especially when using a wide angle lens (you were using a 90mm in this one, too?).
In this case, there's really no good reference point for level, so leveling the tripod/camera is the way to go.
toddATskylinepressDOTcom
I was up on Harrison Flat last summer and from my recollection the bench there does have a slight slope to the NE., but both of your images do seem to tilt a bit. I always use the bubble levels on my TK45S to make sure my comps are level but sometimes the compostion plays tricks with your eyes. Here is an image I made there.
Receding shorelines and creekbanks are always tough but I like Scott R's advice - even if your leveled in exactly but the image doesn't look right - forget the level and make it look right.
Likewise when photographing Aspens that are all leaning slightly in one direction it's sometimes better to tilt the camera with the lean IMO.
Just my 2 pennies.
Craig