I am shooting with a Canon 1d MK II. I have never shot infrared with film or digital, but would like to explore it a little. What would I need to do w/ my camera to shoot infrared. Is all a need an infrared filter? Which would be the best to use?
I don't have the time to dig at the moment, but will do so later. In the past there have been at least a couple of very good threads on digital IR here at NPN. If you're in a rush for the info, use the search function at the top of the page.
Anyone have those threads bookmarked so they can provide the links sooner?
Almost all digital cameras have a blocking filter for anything but normal light, but that does not mean that you can not take IR images with them. It only means that some will do better than others at recording IR.
All you will need is the right filter, such as a Hoya R72 or a Wratten #89B.
Always buy the largest filter size for the lenses you will use and then use step up rings when needed for the smaller lens threads.
IR filters are all totally black and can not be looked through, so regular light will not pass through them, so for that reason, and for the longer exposures you will need, you will have to use a tripod also.
In fact you will not be able to take an image without a tripod.
Because you can not see through these filters, you must compose and focus without the filter on, lock the tripod in possition, and then place the filter on the lens to expose.
A wider angle lens is best, in the 24-35mm range. NO SHORTER than 24mm.
The wide angle helps the depth of field, but too wide of an angle starts creating blurred edges.
You can use any long lens with no problem other than loosing more depth of field.
Longer exposures are needed to compensate for the blocking filter in the camera, so there is no way to get a good shot without a tripod. Using an ISO from 200-400 is usually best and the exposures to start out testing at depend on the camera body you use. They do vary a lot. Start out at about 1/4 sec. at f/8 and adjust from there depending on how much more exposure and sharpness is needed.
With digital you have the histogram that you will need to use ALL THE TIME, and shoot with manual exposure for the most control.
That should get you started. Everything after that is all testing on your part.
PS - - To keep from having to waste money on a filter you may not be able to use (these are expensive) call some camera stores in your town to see if they have any in stock, and then first go down and ask if you can shoot a few frames outside with it to make sure your model will even take IR images. Some blocking filters can not be worked around no matter what you do.
Posted by Bill Chambers on July 24, 2006 at 11:03 AM
Paul - I'm confused. I understand the filter allowing only IR rays into the lens, but if my sensor has an IR filter to block those rays, what good will it do to try and shoot IR in the first place. I mean, these are the same rays that are normally blocked anyway, right? What am I missing?
Oops, I just read the last part of your comment, or maybe you just added that part on. I shoot Nikon, and have heard that IR was not an option. Do you have any other info on that?
Try reading it again. I did not say that it is an IR blocking filter.
I did add a few new things in edits, but the beginning is the same.
I also said that it depends on the camera, but I guess I should have said camera "model".
The D-200 will take IR images with some work, mainly longer exposures.
The D70 will to an extent, but a converted D70 works better.
No maker will tell you that their cameras will take IR images, so you need to find out if they have a blocking filter installed (some older cameras do not) and if so, then use the IR filter to test and see if what you have will work around it.
Maybe I should also have added that these blocking filters are for ALL LIGHT other than normal daylight.
This is because digital daylight is recorded a bit differently than film does, and the odd wavelengths effect the color balance in digital images, which is what the blocking filters fix, but they DO NOT block just IR light, nor do they even block all other light. They just act sort of like a moderate color correction filter that you would use on a lens. They block it up to a point, which is what you have to find ways to work around, if you have a camera you can even do that with. Some can, others can't. One camera I used once created a large flare in the center of the image when an IR filter was used on the lens. YOu could still get an IR image around that, but with the flare filling the whole middle.
This is why I said it all depends on the model you are using.
Posted by Bryce Flory on July 24, 2006 at 12:54 PM
i have a D70s and did some outstanding IR work earlier this summer on a week long shoot...
one thing i would add is to create a custom WB... this is what i did... on a very bright sunny day, find a nice patch of green grass... the D70 allows you to create a custom WB by capturing an image directly to the WB... so i aimed my camera at the grass and told the camera to use the WB from that particular shot of the grass...
i then found some interesting subjects (i find that having some inanimate object in the image helps set off the IR in the foliage and such).. i would compose and set my camera using full manual... i found that f/16 for anywhere from 1-4 seconds produced the nicest images...
once the images were downloaded i had to convert them to grayscale. because its digital the images come are captured in RGB, so they look pink... but a simple greyscale conversion renders them into that amazing IR look....
hope this helps... i really got into the IR on this trip and look forward to doing more of it!
Bryce - That's good news about the D70, gives me hope for my Nikon. Which filter did you use to allow the IR into the camera? Also, What ISO setting, and any ideas on a starting point for shutter speed for a "normal" shot, i.e. sunny 16 rule. Thanks.
Bill - - EVERYTHING you ask for has already been given in two other posts.
This is exactly why I almost never reply to questions on here anymore.
You spend your time giving people info they ask about, and then they don't even bother to read it.
Paul - not intending to butt heads with you, but I did indeed read your posts, and appreciated them very much. However, I see nothing wrong or inconsiderate about asking someone else about their opinions and experiences either. I was asking Bryce specific questions about his experience using the D70 - it was not an open ended question to everyone and was not meant to challenge or discount your earlier information. I apologize if that's the way you interpreted it.
Posted by Bryce Flory on July 24, 2006 at 10:04 PM
bill- i used both ISO 100 & 400, but found that i preferred the 100 best... although the 400 gives it a bit more grain that you would normally see in infrared film...
as for the filter... i used a harrison IR filter... i'm guessing its pretty old because my father gave it to me on the trip and said he bought it years ago, and never uses it! the filter doesnt saying anything about the IR number, just IR filter... sorry, hope that helps.
as for starting points, i tried anywhere from f/8 - f/16 and 1/2 sec - 4 sec... but found that i got the best results at f/16 and right around 1-2 seconds depending on the composition...
this is one of the areas that having digital really helped as it allowed me to get a sense of the shot and make adjustments on the spot... i started i think at 4 secs and found it was way too much, it was blowing out the bright foliage to white... so i scaled back and again found 1-2 seconds to be very desirable...
hope this all helps... i hope to post a few of those IR images in the next few days (in the man & nature gallery)
Posted by Bryce Flory on July 24, 2006 at 10:09 PM
also bill - check out this site for a great tutorial on IR with the D70... i got a lot of great info, and the custom WB info was invaluable!
Bill - - no problem.
I have just had about the worst month I've ever had in my life, so I probably shouldn't have posted here now to begin with.
To add to this now anyway I will say this one last post.
#1 - I would not buy a Harrison IR filter. Not because they do not work, but because they are over twice as thick as other filters and used on the wrong lens they can rub on the lens glass. I have used them before and they are more trouble then they are worth. If you do buy one anyway get a size larger than the largest lens thread and then use a step-up ring to move it away from the lens glass. That's what I finally had to do to keep from screwing up my lens element.
#2 - Do not go by what someone else uses for settings, not even with the same model. These blocking filters are not all the same, and even the same camera model can have a few different filter makes installed and each can give different exposure results.
You have a histogram, so use it to dial in the best exposures.
Start anywhere around 1-second at about f/8 and test from there.
The histogram will tell you which way to go.
100 ISO will require longer exposures, and 400+ ISOs will add nice IR effect grain, but loose sharpness.
It still all comes down to what looks best to you and some one else's settings can not tell you that.
You have to test for them with what you are using, even if it is the same model.
#3 - - White balance is the one thing Bryce said about that is one of the major factors in good exposures for digital IR images.
You have to create custom settings for it in the different lighting conditions you will have,
ie, bright open sun, bright shade, and overcast.
Each kind of light gives different image results, and even with those, it can also depend on the direction to the lighting (sun) that you are shooting.
Discussion
14 repliesI am shooting with a Canon 1d MK II. I have never shot infrared with film or digital, but would like to explore it a little. What would I need to do w/ my camera to shoot infrared. Is all a need an infrared filter? Which would be the best to use?
Thanks,
Michael C. Dunning
I don't have the time to dig at the moment, but will do so later. In the past there have been at least a couple of very good threads on digital IR here at NPN. If you're in a rush for the info, use the search function at the top of the page.
Anyone have those threads bookmarked so they can provide the links sooner?
All you will need is the right filter, such as a Hoya R72 or a Wratten #89B.
Always buy the largest filter size for the lenses you will use and then use step up rings when needed for the smaller lens threads.
IR filters are all totally black and can not be looked through, so regular light will not pass through them, so for that reason, and for the longer exposures you will need, you will have to use a tripod also.
In fact you will not be able to take an image without a tripod.
Because you can not see through these filters, you must compose and focus without the filter on, lock the tripod in possition, and then place the filter on the lens to expose.
A wider angle lens is best, in the 24-35mm range. NO SHORTER than 24mm.
The wide angle helps the depth of field, but too wide of an angle starts creating blurred edges.
You can use any long lens with no problem other than loosing more depth of field.
Longer exposures are needed to compensate for the blocking filter in the camera, so there is no way to get a good shot without a tripod. Using an ISO from 200-400 is usually best and the exposures to start out testing at depend on the camera body you use. They do vary a lot. Start out at about 1/4 sec. at f/8 and adjust from there depending on how much more exposure and sharpness is needed.
With digital you have the histogram that you will need to use ALL THE TIME, and shoot with manual exposure for the most control.
That should get you started. Everything after that is all testing on your part.
PS - - To keep from having to waste money on a filter you may not be able to use (these are expensive) call some camera stores in your town to see if they have any in stock, and then first go down and ask if you can shoot a few frames outside with it to make sure your model will even take IR images. Some blocking filters can not be worked around no matter what you do.
Oops, I just read the last part of your comment, or maybe you just added that part on. I shoot Nikon, and have heard that IR was not an option. Do you have any other info on that?
I did add a few new things in edits, but the beginning is the same.
I also said that it depends on the camera, but I guess I should have said camera "model".
The D-200 will take IR images with some work, mainly longer exposures.
The D70 will to an extent, but a converted D70 works better.
No maker will tell you that their cameras will take IR images, so you need to find out if they have a blocking filter installed (some older cameras do not) and if so, then use the IR filter to test and see if what you have will work around it.
This is because digital daylight is recorded a bit differently than film does, and the odd wavelengths effect the color balance in digital images, which is what the blocking filters fix, but they DO NOT block just IR light, nor do they even block all other light. They just act sort of like a moderate color correction filter that you would use on a lens. They block it up to a point, which is what you have to find ways to work around, if you have a camera you can even do that with. Some can, others can't. One camera I used once created a large flare in the center of the image when an IR filter was used on the lens. YOu could still get an IR image around that, but with the flare filling the whole middle.
This is why I said it all depends on the model you are using.
one thing i would add is to create a custom WB... this is what i did... on a very bright sunny day, find a nice patch of green grass... the D70 allows you to create a custom WB by capturing an image directly to the WB... so i aimed my camera at the grass and told the camera to use the WB from that particular shot of the grass...
i then found some interesting subjects (i find that having some inanimate object in the image helps set off the IR in the foliage and such).. i would compose and set my camera using full manual... i found that f/16 for anywhere from 1-4 seconds produced the nicest images...
once the images were downloaded i had to convert them to grayscale. because its digital the images come are captured in RGB, so they look pink... but a simple greyscale conversion renders them into that amazing IR look....
hope this helps... i really got into the IR on this trip and look forward to doing more of it!
Paul - thanks for the clarification too.
This is exactly why I almost never reply to questions on here anymore.
You spend your time giving people info they ask about, and then they don't even bother to read it.
as for the filter... i used a harrison IR filter... i'm guessing its pretty old because my father gave it to me on the trip and said he bought it years ago, and never uses it! the filter doesnt saying anything about the IR number, just IR filter... sorry, hope that helps.
as for starting points, i tried anywhere from f/8 - f/16 and 1/2 sec - 4 sec... but found that i got the best results at f/16 and right around 1-2 seconds depending on the composition...
this is one of the areas that having digital really helped as it allowed me to get a sense of the shot and make adjustments on the spot... i started i think at 4 secs and found it was way too much, it was blowing out the bright foliage to white... so i scaled back and again found 1-2 seconds to be very desirable...
hope this all helps... i hope to post a few of those IR images in the next few days (in the man & nature gallery)
www.nature-photography-central.com/Digital_Infrared_Photography_with_the_Nikon_D70.html
www.bythom.com/infrared.html
I have just had about the worst month I've ever had in my life, so I probably shouldn't have posted here now to begin with.
To add to this now anyway I will say this one last post.
#1 - I would not buy a Harrison IR filter. Not because they do not work, but because they are over twice as thick as other filters and used on the wrong lens they can rub on the lens glass. I have used them before and they are more trouble then they are worth. If you do buy one anyway get a size larger than the largest lens thread and then use a step-up ring to move it away from the lens glass. That's what I finally had to do to keep from screwing up my lens element.
#2 - Do not go by what someone else uses for settings, not even with the same model. These blocking filters are not all the same, and even the same camera model can have a few different filter makes installed and each can give different exposure results.
You have a histogram, so use it to dial in the best exposures.
Start anywhere around 1-second at about f/8 and test from there.
The histogram will tell you which way to go.
100 ISO will require longer exposures, and 400+ ISOs will add nice IR effect grain, but loose sharpness.
It still all comes down to what looks best to you and some one else's settings can not tell you that.
You have to test for them with what you are using, even if it is the same model.
#3 - - White balance is the one thing Bryce said about that is one of the major factors in good exposures for digital IR images.
You have to create custom settings for it in the different lighting conditions you will have,
ie, bright open sun, bright shade, and overcast.
Each kind of light gives different image results, and even with those, it can also depend on the direction to the lighting (sun) that you are shooting.