Just passing + Repost + col!

Hi Steve,

I like the eye-level view of the giraffe in the foreground and I think I like the B&W conversion in absolute terms, but can't comment on whether or not the conversion was an improvement over the colour original without seeing both at once. If I'm being honest, I'm not sure the passer-by adds to my appreciation of the image - to me it feels like a bit of distraction, especially given the overlap with the head of the in-focus giraffe. Hope that makes sense...

Cheers...thanks for sharing this...

Brad

Hi Brad sometimes you win, sometimes you loose and I guess I lost this one.

Regarding an option for comparison, I have now decided not to include the colour version whenever I post something like this because I do not feel it is appropriate. If the 'photographer' chooses a particular medium, style, technique etc and presents it in that manner, surely it should be judged in that way? If you went to an art gallery to view B/W images (or similar) would you expect to see the same set in colour further on in the gallery?

Cheers
Steve

Brad, this was the original one I was going to post, but felt the other Giraffe added more interest.

Cheers
Steve

Hey Steve,

You say: "... I have now decided not to include the colour version whenever I post something like this because I do not feel it is appropriate."

That's fine - I totally respect that. But in making that decision you have nullified any feedback on whether or not the actual conversion was successful or a perceived improvement over the original. But if you don't want that feedback anyway (i.e., consider it one of your creative decisions that you don't want to re-consider) - no problem! Personally, I always find it quite illuminating when I see both versions (colour and B&W) and will always provide both versions when I go the B&W route - but that's just me (and, to a degree, I feel it's a good pedagogical tool and part of my role as moderator).

RE: Re-post: Definitely prefer it myself! But I tend towards liking very simple images so I'm biased!!

Cheers Steve...thanks for taking the effort to re-post...

Brad

Thanks Brad, appreciate the response/feedback and you raise a fair point, however.

If the author chooses to post an image in a particular way I would like to think, as a viewer, he/she has done this because they feel it best conveys the image, mood, look & feel etc and that the original colour version was perhaps less sympathetic, or did not simply reflect the message the author wanted in it's original shape & form. Therefore, comments should be based on as presented. If you post the colour version in say the 3rd or 4th post people get side tracked from the OP and simply say I prefer the colour, undermining the whole point of the OP IMHO and the thread then takes on a 'comments based' prefer colour or B/W theme, rather than the the more objective, construction comments/feedback the author originally wanted.

Now, if there is a valid question based on a key factor then yes, I would gladly post the colour version, if I thought it was beneficial, or more importantly, ADDED VALUE into the mix.

Simply Brad, my fear of adding the colour version in is that it dilutes the OP.

Refreshing to have a healthy, positive & fruitful dialog, now where I put my colour palette for the next image.

Steve

Hey Steve,

I totally see your side of the discussion. I think the critical issue comes down to the actual reason one is posting the image - if it's for "maximum" feedback on all aspects of the image (including the decision to convert to B&W), then I think posting both colour and B&W versions serves a purpose. I guess it comes down to why the individual posts on NPN - if a poster is taking it to be a gallery to showcase their very best work and ensure it has maximum impact (and there is NOTHING wrong with this!) then perhaps getting "side-tracked from the OP" is an issue. But I see NPN a little differently (perhaps because I'm one of the moderators) - to me it's primarily a place to LEARN about photography in a open, sharing environment. I have seen situations where posters have shown both colour and B&W versions because they honestly don't know which version is preferable and really want the feedback. And, I think the discussion that results from such posts educates many other viewers.

I guess I'm left wondering why one portion of the continuous creative process from image capture through to final online presentation (in this case the decision of whether to convert to B&W or not) is functionally "off-limits" to feedback (via not supplying the original colour version). Even if EVERY commenter disagrees with the decisions made by the photographer, if that photographer feels strongly about what they've created they CAN just ignore the feedback (heck, I do it all the time!! ). In the big picture, if we accept ALL the feedback we get on an image and take it to heart, before long we have major "group think" going on and everyone's images would begin to look the same...very boring indeed!

But all very interesting...please consider this simply an "academic" debate - I have absolutely NO problem with you posting just the B&W version and commenting only on the final product.

Cheers...

Brad

Hi Brad, I have always taken the view that posting an image is for feedback & discussion as you quite rightly say, we are all here to learn (and both have the same roles) and one never stops learning and your last sentence, in your last para is spot on.

However, your last para has now left me in a quandary, but as you say and I have always said, one needs to distill from the feedback, especially the ones like 'it doesn't do anything for me', don't you just love those pointless comments.

Ultimately I think, there are two reasons:
1: To post something different occasionally, primarily in a different medium for impact, the subject is right for it/lends itself to it (in the authors view) and just to get alternative feedback/thinking.

2. To offer a creativity in the Forum showcase, otherwise all images in colour does get rather boring and illustrates lack of inspiration and to experiment, key to a growing Forum which needs to constantly grow & develop and CHANGE when required.

Might be going off target here, but I guess I have missed this interaction and exchange of thinking on here.

Best get back to the fold.

cheers
Steve

Ultimately when photography goes from documentary to artistic vision, all results become subjective. I applaud experimentation, too, and the choice for black and white is a good change for the collective eye of the gallery. That said, I might prefer the color version!

My reaction to these postings is that the second (the repost) is far more satisfying and is an image that would remain pleasing viewed repeatedly on a wall. The original post, athough interesting, I feel would soon become less so because of the slight dissonance between the two subjects, overlapping with differing but defined angles and with different focus. I think the effort would have been more successful if the head of the foreground giraffe was not merged into the background animal. All that said, it is still a neat image and thanks for providing a thought provoking posting.

OK guys you win, colour version supplied.

Lon, appreciate you guys taking the time an interest, however I hadn't wanted it to be thought provoking from the initial posting, but I am pleased it has taken this course from a personal, and perhaps, Forum POV.

In all honesty the B/W toned versions are more 'subtle' and overcame the BG running through the head which is more prominent and a kind of no no for me.

I prefer the black and white version below of the single giraffe. Feels more intimate. Good job.


lucy

I am amazes on the in depth discusiion of the rathere ordinary shot, irrespective of whether it is B & W or not.

Cerainly the conversion does not hide the fact that the shot is badly composed with the passing Giraffe directly behind the youngster, it may have worked if it were entering fom the left but even than it would not past muster for me.

Whist a Giraffe sitting down may not be the norm, the fact that this is a younster makes it a lot more likely.

In the Mara Giraffe do far more interesting things like graze rather than browse, perhaps this sort of shot could have been considered