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Deadman's Chute
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Deadman's Chute

by Lon Overacker

Gallery: LandscapePosted September 27, 20179,811 views10 comments
Hey folks,

Thank you for your comments on the last image and series.  Images from our Sonora Pass trip are dwindling down.  Good thing fall is around the corner so I hopefully can go shooting again!

I had been passing on this one for a while and finally decided to put it through the processing paces.  The colors, especially in the water are boosted up a little.  I liked the blue/green look as if this were glacial run off (well, it's snow melt off for sure...)  The remaining color is pretty true, although I'm always tweaking with a goal of natural and believability.  Hopefully this comes across that way.

In full disclosure this is a blend of two frames.  The best frame I had of the overall flow of the stream didn't have very good detail in the area immediately above the feldspar/granite rock at the bottom.  I stacked the images and blended in at a medium opacity to bring in texture from a different frame.  Hope this looks natural too.  Also, some content aware cloning in the LLC corner. The was a small willow hanging over that corner.  I could have cropped out, but would have lost about 1/3 of the rock and also disrupted the flow.  Hindsight is 20/20, I'm trying to remember if I could have gently held the branch away during exposure, but alas, I didn't do that.  So, content-aware fun.  Large master file it's not such a great job. but looks ok for these web sizes.

I have a question for you if you care to respond.  I think disclosure is a good thing and warranted if you're presenting something that wasn't there.  My question is though, Do you care to know what has been altered, blended, cloned? Or would you rather just see the image for what it is, and not know how it was created?  Maybe a good topic for one of the forums?

Regardless, I'm still and always welcoming your critiques and suggestions.

Thanks!

Comments

10 comments
Comment posted by Dan Kearl on September 27, 2017 at 8:02 PM
I like to know just for the info (maybe I would look into it).
I appreciate you disclosed.
I would not have noticed. As far as color goes for the water, I have no problem at all with adding color.
People reduce it (B&W) all the time for the effect so introducing color within reason is fine with me.
As far as the image, I might take a bit off the top (to just above the first 2 rocks on the left). The SS is nice and the color looks natural.
Registered on September 2, 2013, 209 Posts, 1514 Comments
Comment posted by Harley Goldman on September 27, 2017 at 8:08 PM
This is quite nice. Colors look natural and a fine comp. For me, I would like to know about the blend given it was not a DOF or exposure blend (which I don't care about), but don't care about the clone unless you put something there that wasn't there. Cloning out a telephone, branch, fence, house, etc doesn't bother me a bit and I don't need the disclosure. Everyone has their own standards when it comes to this stuff and those are mine. 
Registered on November 19, 2003, 586 Posts, 11271 Comments
Comment posted by Eva McDermott on September 27, 2017 at 8:45 PM
I really like the flow here Lon (pardon the pun), but I do like flow and eloquent exposure.  The color and overall scene look very natural as well as the blend.  Thanks for the disclosure. 
Registered on January 4, 2009, 1015 Posts, 13229 Comments
Comment posted by gary phillips on September 27, 2017 at 10:43 PM
It looks quite natural to me, Lon.  I'm in the "I don't care" camp on cloning and blending.  I think if it's a composite, it should be disclosed.  The way I see it, honest people, make honest images.  I really like the flow and the texture of the rocks.  The touch of green, middle right,  is a nice touch.  Beautiful image.
Registered on October 24, 2013, 185 Posts, 4136 Comments
Comment posted by Igor Doncov on September 27, 2017 at 10:48 PM
I like this image quite a bit. The best part of the image is the water so that tells you how effective your blending turned out. It's not just the SS but the rich variety of colors that are in that water. I don't think it approaches the turquoise of a glaciated stream and even if the colors don't match perfectly a Sierra stream I don't think it matters. Since the water is already a representation of water due to slow exposure why should the colors be a perfect match of the original. I know what a perfectionist you are and prefer technical suggestions (although mostly from Preston and Harley). If you could add a bit more texture to white water at center bottom that would help. Also, darkening the rocks at top of frame on the right where there is a crack seems to help. The lrc looks great to me. 

Regarding the sharing of processing of an image - I generally think it's a good idea. I think it should be optional. The reason is that I often can't retrace the steps I took to do something. However I always am greatly appreciative of those with great skills who share them - John Williams, Harry Lichtman. The only issue for sharing that I can imagine is that the observer then focuses on what was done and becomes particularly critical of, say, the cloning area. Another words, if I'm looking at a Van Gogh does it really help me to be directed to the weakest part of his painting? Is it fair to him? But if the painter is looking for a review of a specific problem then he might want to point out where it is. So there are 2 goals to share processing (1) to teach the user (2) to get feedback from user. As you noted, it's a big subject. 

Now I have a question for you if you care to respond. I have noticed that you, Preston, and Harley each take the suggestions of one another seriously and implement them but rarely do so from others who take the time to do it. I am frankly puzzled by this. Is this because they are the ones that give the best suggestions or because your friendship has provided a trust that isn't there with others? The reason I bring it up is because it discourages others from commenting after a while. And, yes, I am stirring the pot.

Actually, this subject could be generalized and opened up further. Do we all have criticism that we take more seriously than others? Do we all have favored critiquers that we look forward to and largely ignore the rest? Probably. Is this just natural or should this be discouraged. Nothing in the list of critique recommendations give guidance on this.
Registered on November 22, 2014, 189 Posts, 2733 Comments
Comment posted by Preston Birdwell on September 28, 2017 at 12:11 PM
Lon, I really like angle from which you photographed this lovely cascade. I do not know why I did not move a little further downstream: I was higher up, but I feel we both captured the essence of this place. Your composition really shows the water movement and how the rock affects the flow. Nicely done.

The color, especially the water, looks fine to me; perhaps a departure from reality, but is not that true of all photography? We interpret a scene as it fits with our emotions at the time.

With regard to disclosure of manipulations:
  • Minor cloning/spotting need not be disclosed
  • Adding elements that were not in the original capture should be disclosed
  • Blending of differing exposures should be disclosed*
  • Significant cloning/content aware move of elements should be disclosed
  • Pano stitching should be disclosed
  • Focus stacking for depth of field should be disclosed*.
  • Significant cropping of the original frame should be disclosed.
*With regard to focus stacking: It is a toss-up whether or not it needs to be disclosed. In my opinion disclosing that is instructive in nature so that others can possibly apply the technique to their own images. The same could be said for blending of different exposures of the same scene.

The above is not to be taken as hard and fast rules for NPN, but only as suggestions as to what should, or need not be disclosed, and as such are only my personal criteria. Please remember that NPN has always been about the enjoyment of nature photography, the pursuit of excellence, and learning.
--P
Registered on November 1, 2003, 471 Posts, 5188 Comments
Comment posted by Mark Seaver on September 28, 2017 at 5:37 PM
Lon, this looks great.  A fine sense of movement and some good colors in the water set off well by the surrounding granite.  Both the colors and the shapes open up very well in the larger view.  I think that disclosing "significant" manipulations is important if we want to preserve the sense that nature photography is showing the reality of the scene.  Clearly, there are some things that can be captured that can't be seen (such as Dan K's night image of Canary Springs) and at time we need to manipulate what the camera captures to match what the eye sees (stacking is one of those, where the eye adjusts focus throughout the view, but the camera can't in a single frame).
Registered on January 23, 2011, 1103 Posts, 17270 Comments
Comment posted by Rudy Ruberti on September 28, 2017 at 8:53 PM
Lon,
Great high Sierra scene and the processing looks good to me.  Would not have thought much about the water color if you didn't bring it up (looks natural enough to me).  As far as disclosures, I'm more concerned with the end result than the method of getting there, but I do think it's good to note certain things like exposure blending, etc.  
Registered on October 28, 2008, 179 Posts, 1875 Comments
Comment posted by Craig Moreau on September 29, 2017 at 12:44 PM
Lon, this is one of my favorites from your recent series. I love the balance of rock to water, and the shutter speed in the water looks excellent. Water color looks great and believable to me.

I always like to know what was done to an image, and especially in the context of a critique site like NPN. I think it helps to know what techniques are out there for creating images. I don't mind if certain things are not shared, like minimal cloning of stray leaves or the like. I frequently use two or more exposures for this type of scene due to the varying textures in different areas of the water. I don't feel like this needs to be disclosed, although I always do for the reason I mention above.

I think that if more significant compositing of images is done, like adding a different sky or even a sky from the exact same view but maybe hours apart, that should be disclosed, and the image can be judged as a composite image rather than as a moment in time. I have no problem with people creating these composite images, so long as they're not trying to pass it off as a capture of a moment in time.
Registered on April 21, 2015, 64 Posts, 584 Comments
Comment posted by Paul Breitkreuz on September 29, 2017 at 11:27 PM
Dead Man's Chute?......I recall Dead Man's Curve by Jan & Dean. That's Jan Berry and Dean Torrance of course. The TV made movie was played by two good actors, Jan played by the late Richard Hatch, and Dean played by Bruce Davidson. I'm sure that's more information then was needed, but that's just how my brain works.

Lon, this is a very solid image especially for some of the key points you mention about the post processing items too. I use the CA command a lot for easier then cloning attacks. But for the purpose you mentioned it can be good up to a point. The larger files can leave some artifacts to clean up. I agree with most of the list Preston has provide about the disclosures. Although admittedly I do not post many of my own. It is not to leave out or hide any disclosures, it's just the fact I do not keep track of my process changes like many folks might do. If it is a key point I will recall it and point it out without hesitation as I think one should. But if it is in general cleanup of an image I rarely recall things to make a point about.

Anyway, I really like this as a closeup and intimate take on this small area of this stream. And, it includes a bit of diagonal flow to the image, which always works for me on water flow scenes like this one. This is an extremely fine image as a final product here.....laugh
Registered on February 25, 2006, 525 Posts, 8448 Comments