I'm considering HP B9180 to replace my Epson 2200/2100. I need to print upto A3 only and on Glossy (80% of the time choice:Hahnemühle FA pearl) and Matt (Photorag 20%).
Has anybody seen prints from the HP+vivera inks? All I have got it onlinre reviews and wilhelm backing.
I'm not very happy with 2100/FApearl combo, the prints are superb but the bronzing is a big problem. As I print on glossy/semiglossy media more and manage to sell few prints once in a while thought of getting a better printer. Not so sure about 2400. designjet is also in consideration although 'water proofing' is an issue. May be Micheal Gordon will write something about the same.
Posted by Robert Fisher on November 23, 2006 at 9:50 AM
Hi Prashant. What about something like the Epson R1800? Have you looked at that one? The only thing I'll say on the Wilhelm tests of the HP is that pretty much all the tests I've seen for HP printers only test on HP papers so if you use other papers you may not get similar longevity results and probably won't actually. There's also a very big difference between the performance of the Vivera inks in the 9180 and the Designjet 130 and it seems odd that the same inks on the same paper out of two different printers results in such a large gap. Such a gap doesn't exist in the Epson printers.
The other thing I'll throw at you, and maybe you've already considered it, is the newer line of Canon printers that are using pigmented inks. The 9950 is due out soon I believe and looks pretty promising. I know there have been some inconsistencies with the pigmented inks in the iPF5000 so maybe staying away from Canon till they have more of a track record is better.
Robert,
Thanks for the reply. Problem is R1800 is not available in Germany as of now. It also exhibits some bronzing I heard. (may be wrong). How does it do with matt papers?
I have a print of Todd Caudle's image done with the same printer and it is AMAZING.
Posted by Jasper Doest on November 23, 2006 at 10:47 AM
I have a R1800 and it is just great! Why not buy one from the Netherlands....there available at all major stores for about €539,-
Posted by Robert Fisher on November 23, 2006 at 11:32 AM
I offered up the R1800 because you'd said you print more on glossier stock. From what I've seen on a few test prints in the store it's OK on matte papers but quite not as good as the 2400. Not as good for b&w either because it only has the single black. I didn't see any bronzing on the test prints in the store from the R1800.
The 2400 is reputed to have solved the bronzing issue as well. I've not used one nor seen prints from one on glossier stock, so am only going by what I've read in reviews on that front.
Posted by Mark Simms on November 23, 2006 at 12:52 PM
re: There's also a very big difference between the performance of the Vivera inks in the 9180 and the Designjet 130 and it seems odd that the same inks on the same paper out of two different printers results in such a large gap. Such a gap doesn't exist in the Epson printers.
This is not quite right....HP made a huge marketing blunder in naming the 9180 inks "Vivera" when that name was already used for the HP DJ 90/130 series. The 9180 Vivera inks are PIGMENTED inks and quite different than Vivera DYE inks.
BTW: the Vivera dye inks are quite special and have good longevity as well as "pop". I UV coat my prints and they last even outdoors.
Mark,
what do you mean by UV coat? Some 'water proofing' or?
Posted by Robert Fisher on November 23, 2006 at 2:17 PM
Thanks Mark. Perfect example of the blunder. I wasn't aware that they'd used the name Vivera for two different ink formulations. That would go a long way to explaining the longevity difference.
Posted by Mark Simms on November 25, 2006 at 1:36 AM
Re: what do you mean by UV coat? Some 'water proofing' or?
Dye-based inks work best with solvent-based Ultra-Violet (UV) inhibiting coatings. These same coatings often have Hindered Amine Stabilizers (HAS) which help to twart the effects of ozone and other gases in the air. It is truly amazing what longevity they can provide to dye-based inks. Solvent-based coatings, when cured, provide a near-bulletproof barrier to moisture, gases, and UV rays.
Pigment-based inks work best with aqueous-based UV inhibited coatings.
I work with http://www.clearstarcorp.com 's products because of their wide-range of products that work with specific ink and substrate combinations. Clearjet is best for dyes; ClearShield is best for pigmented inks.
Posted by Genny K. on November 26, 2006 at 3:27 PM
Thanks for your info on thie, Mark. I have the Designjet 130, and I've tried to find a good coating for my prints.
I am impressed with the output of my printer, but I still think that HP is horribly lacking in their user manuals and support information that they end along with their printers. Maybe they're getting better with the new printers, but I know I got more information with my cheap little $90 Epson printer than I did with my DJ 130! HP wants you to look everything up on the web, I guess, but for me being on dialup, that is frustrating and slow. So far, their customer service for the DJ 130 has been good, with them shipping new printheads to me overnight, and believe me, getting something shipped to Alaska over night is really impressive!!!!
One thing impressive about the Designjet series is their small size for the size of output they do. They are roughly half the weight of Epsons, or even less. HP has a history of building printers for architectural drawings, so they have a good background in how to build printers.
Posted by Les Barstow on November 27, 2006 at 6:50 PM
If you're printing on a mixture of "glossy" and matte surfaces, I'd recommend Epson's 2400 for A3 printing.
If you're worried about bronzing, I think you can lay your fears to rest with the latest generation of Epson printer technology. I've owned an R800 and now an R1800 for two years, and I just recently caught sight of a hint of bronzing while flexing my image and holding it at an extreme angle; the gloss optimizer cartridge of the R1800 really limits bronzing effects to improbable situations. The 2400's K3 inks are supposed to be even better in this regard, and they are better at printing on matte papers than the R1800.
Discussion
11 repliesHas anybody seen prints from the HP+vivera inks? All I have got it onlinre reviews and wilhelm backing.
Thanks for your time,
The other thing I'll throw at you, and maybe you've already considered it, is the newer line of Canon printers that are using pigmented inks. The 9950 is due out soon I believe and looks pretty promising. I know there have been some inconsistencies with the pigmented inks in the iPF5000 so maybe staying away from Canon till they have more of a track record is better.
Thanks for the reply. Problem is R1800 is not available in Germany as of now. It also exhibits some bronzing I heard. (may be wrong). How does it do with matt papers?
I have a print of Todd Caudle's image done with the same printer and it is AMAZING.
The 2400 is reputed to have solved the bronzing issue as well. I've not used one nor seen prints from one on glossier stock, so am only going by what I've read in reviews on that front.
This is not quite right....HP made a huge marketing blunder in naming the 9180 inks "Vivera" when that name was already used for the HP DJ 90/130 series. The 9180 Vivera inks are PIGMENTED inks and quite different than Vivera DYE inks.
BTW: the Vivera dye inks are quite special and have good longevity as well as "pop". I UV coat my prints and they last even outdoors.
what do you mean by UV coat? Some 'water proofing' or?
Dye-based inks work best with solvent-based Ultra-Violet (UV) inhibiting coatings. These same coatings often have Hindered Amine Stabilizers (HAS) which help to twart the effects of ozone and other gases in the air. It is truly amazing what longevity they can provide to dye-based inks. Solvent-based coatings, when cured, provide a near-bulletproof barrier to moisture, gases, and UV rays.
Pigment-based inks work best with aqueous-based UV inhibited coatings.
I work with http://www.clearstarcorp.com 's products because of their wide-range of products that work with specific ink and substrate combinations. Clearjet is best for dyes; ClearShield is best for pigmented inks.
I am impressed with the output of my printer, but I still think that HP is horribly lacking in their user manuals and support information that they end along with their printers. Maybe they're getting better with the new printers, but I know I got more information with my cheap little $90 Epson printer than I did with my DJ 130! HP wants you to look everything up on the web, I guess, but for me being on dialup, that is frustrating and slow. So far, their customer service for the DJ 130 has been good, with them shipping new printheads to me overnight, and believe me, getting something shipped to Alaska over night is really impressive!!!!
One thing impressive about the Designjet series is their small size for the size of output they do. They are roughly half the weight of Epsons, or even less. HP has a history of building printers for architectural drawings, so they have a good background in how to build printers.
If you're worried about bronzing, I think you can lay your fears to rest with the latest generation of Epson printer technology. I've owned an R800 and now an R1800 for two years, and I just recently caught sight of a hint of bronzing while flexing my image and holding it at an extreme angle; the gloss optimizer cartridge of the R1800 really limits bronzing effects to improbable situations. The 2400's K3 inks are supposed to be even better in this regard, and they are better at printing on matte papers than the R1800.