Posted by Phillip Noll on September 23, 2008 at 3:46 PM
I just bought CS3! Oh well, someone's gotta keep all those Adobe employees working! Seriously, looks like some very nice improvements!
Posted by Brad Hill on September 23, 2008 at 3:56 PM
Who needs Lightroom?
Actually, I've ALWAYS wondered who needed Lightroom. When it was introduced I thought it was simply a response to Apple's Aperture and to have an entry in the "all-in-one" category. I looked closely at it and could find virtually nothing that could be used to justify its purchase (as one who already owned full-version Photoshop).
CS4 looks impressive. Looking forward to working with it...
Brad
Posted by John Mumaw on September 23, 2008 at 5:48 PM
Phillip,
Give Adobe a call at 800-833-6687. Depending on when you bought the previous edition of PS, a number of folks have received free upgrades if it's close enough to the release date of the successive program.
Posted by John W. Wall on September 23, 2008 at 6:12 PM
Why Lightroom? CS2 can't open RAW files, and it's just much easier to work with newly downloaded images in LR. Easier to view, easier to keyword, easier to compare. I was just about to upgrade to CS3 when I learned CS4 was coming soon.... My main hope about CS4 is that it will mean I don't need to get PTGui for panorama work. The depth-of-field enhancement, if it works as advertised, will also be a boon. I'll probably upgrade LR at the same time and take the 30% discount.
Posted by David Bostedo on September 23, 2008 at 6:33 PM
Why Lightroom? CS2 can't open RAW files
I think that misses the point of the question a bit. Essentially, Lightroom is ACR with a lot of data management built over top of it. (Yes, I realize that there are some other differences.) So the primary purpose of Lightroom seems to be to add enhanced data management capability to ACR - beyond what Bridge has (although I have no experience with Bridge).
So the question is, if you have CS3/CS4, which comes with ACR included, why would you need Lightroom? And my only answer would be, to save a bit of money, and get some nice data management capability. If CS2 wasn't working for you, you definitely needed to upgrade, but you could have gotten CS3.
I personally use PS Elements, but have considered getting Lightroom along with Elements as I'm shooting in RAW more now. The biggest problem I see with that is poor 16-bit support in Elements.
Posted by Phillip Noll on September 23, 2008 at 7:01 PM
Thanks John! I'll give them a call as soon as I get home.
Posted by Mark Pelton on September 23, 2008 at 7:40 PM
I saw on West Coast Imaging website that only CS3 would be able to upgrade to CS4 at just the upgrade price. Does anyone know if this is true? I can't hardly believe that you couldn't also upgrade from CS2?
Posted by John Mumaw on September 23, 2008 at 7:48 PM
That simply isn't true.
I wonder why they would post that tale?
Licensed owners of Photoshop CS3, Photoshop CS2, or Photoshop CS can upgrade to Adobe Photoshop CS4 for special pricing. Licensed owners of Photoshop CS3 Extended, Photoshop CS3, Photoshop CS2, or Photoshop CS are also eligible for special upgrade pricing to certain editions of Adobe Creative Suite 4.
______________________________________________________________________________________________
So the primary purpose of Lightroom seems to be to add enhanced data management capability to ACR - beyond what Bridge has (although I have no experience with Bridge).
Once one learns how to use the Bridge to its full potential, you'll see that the ACR/Bridge combination duplicates most of what Lightroom offers. Owning both apps makes little sense to me.
Posted by james wilkins on September 23, 2008 at 7:54 PM
1. A Revamped User Experience
2. Depth of Field Extended Via Auto Blend Layers
3. The Adjustment Panels
4. On-Screen Image Controls
5. Vibrance is now in Photoshop CS4
6. 3 Great New Additions to Camera Raw
7. Content Aware Resizing Is Here
8. Improvements in Tools Across The Board
9. One Bold Move to 3D
10. Create Your Own Panels with SWF Panel Support and Configurator
-------------------
james wilkins
http://www.drivenwide.com
Posted by Fred Stearns on September 23, 2008 at 7:55 PM
Posted by John Mumaw on September 23, 2008 at 8:04 PM
For years now, Adobe has offered a full version of PS to Elements users for $299.
Here's the most recent link for the Elements (any version) -> CS3 upgrade.
It's just a matter of time before this is offered for CS4.
Posted by Brad Hill on September 23, 2008 at 10:36 PM
Re: Why Lightroom? and resulting entries thereafter...
When I said that I always wondered why Lightroom was needed at all I left out an important thing - I meant for owners of Photoshop CS3 (not CS2). No problem opening RAWs in CS3 (even tho' I don't do it there anyway - I use Capture One from Phase One for Raw conversions) and data management of Bridge CS3 is as good or better than Lightroom (certainly more configurable).
The one thing that Lightroom does offer beyond Photoshop is "all in one" and "full workflow" capabilities, like Apple's Aperture. However, I use an assortment of tools for each of the various steps in my own workflow and don't find Lightroom's toolset as good as individual ones from other software packages (the old "jack of all trades, master of none" syndrome).
Anyway...all I meant was that owning both Photoshop CS3 (and soon CS4) AND Lightroom makes little sense for me. If others feel differently that's A-Ok with me (and Adobe shareholders).
My main hope about CS4 is that it will mean I don't need to get PTGui for panorama work
John: Photoshops CS3's Automerge feature negates the need for 3rd party stitching software. I've found it to be excellent in all regards.
I know Guy Tal prefers PTGui (pretty sure that's the one), but I have personally not found the need for ANY 3rd party plug-in's or add-on's. Photoshop can do it ALL!
Posted by Guy Tal on September 24, 2008 at 11:22 AM
I've actually been a fan of AutoPano Pro since I started using it (still like PTGui, though APP has a much nicer interface). I did find it produces cleaner stitches and transitions than CS3 in some cases.
Guy
Posted by Robert Fisher on September 24, 2008 at 3:55 PM
It looks like CS4 is more of a user interface upgrade than a really strong functionality upgrade. Nothing wrong with that but, it doesn't look like there's a really compelling reason to upgrade unless you're going to need a version of ACR that won't be supported by CS3.
It made sense that the recent upgrades to the LR version of ACR would migrate to PS. It was just a matter of whether they'd be included in an ACR upgrade to CS3 or whether they'd come in CS4.
I'm not sure what that commentator was referring to but the version of ACR I have in CS3 definitely has a Vibrance slider. The Auto Blend feature seems to automates what could be done fairly easily in a manual process previously with layer masks.
I'm really not trying to rain on anyone's parade but is there a lot here to get excited about?
WRT Bridge vs LR for library management, Bridge 2 with CS3 was an improvement but LR is still far better and now that offline images can be managed in LR2 (can't in Bridge CS3, will see about Bridge CS4) it makes LR even that much better than Bridge. Bridge is really little more than a browser and a hackneyed one at that. Is it apparent that I'm not a Bridge fan?
I think the ability to make multiple spot exposure, vibrance, sharpen, etc. changes, non destructively in ACR is a huge improvement, that really makes CS4 appealing to me. I've already ordered it actually. I'm just waiting until the download is available. There are some other good improvements as well beyond the interface improvements that make it look worth the upgrade to me. That's my 2 cents anyway.
Posted by Paul DeCesare on October 3, 2008 at 3:21 PM
I'm still trying to figure out what John meant when he said "Why Lightroom? CS2 can't open RAW files". Not sure what that means. I've opened all my RAW images in CS2 for the last 2 years. All you need to do is download the ACR update for newer cameras, yes/no? I upgraded to CS3 last month, but never had a problem opening RAW in CS2.
Also, I think the LightRoom argument is sort of funny, almost like Adobe is splitting the camp. To me LR is like taking a Canon G9 with you to get some excellent images without hauling the big rig, meaning it has its purpose, right? For others it not really useful, as in my case. I have CS3, and I eat/sleep/breathe Layers, so LR wouldn't add much. I think what's confusing is the PS owners wondering if they need LR, meaning, what would it add. I think there's a super simple answer to the debate: download the demo and see if it works for you. Then you'll know.
Discussion
20 repliesWho needs Lightroom?
Actually, I've ALWAYS wondered who needed Lightroom. When it was introduced I thought it was simply a response to Apple's Aperture and to have an entry in the "all-in-one" category. I looked closely at it and could find virtually nothing that could be used to justify its purchase (as one who already owned full-version Photoshop).
CS4 looks impressive. Looking forward to working with it...
Brad
Give Adobe a call at 800-833-6687. Depending on when you bought the previous edition of PS, a number of folks have received free upgrades if it's close enough to the release date of the successive program.
I think that misses the point of the question a bit. Essentially, Lightroom is ACR with a lot of data management built over top of it. (Yes, I realize that there are some other differences.) So the primary purpose of Lightroom seems to be to add enhanced data management capability to ACR - beyond what Bridge has (although I have no experience with Bridge).
So the question is, if you have CS3/CS4, which comes with ACR included, why would you need Lightroom? And my only answer would be, to save a bit of money, and get some nice data management capability. If CS2 wasn't working for you, you definitely needed to upgrade, but you could have gotten CS3.
I personally use PS Elements, but have considered getting Lightroom along with Elements as I'm shooting in RAW more now. The biggest problem I see with that is poor 16-bit support in Elements.
I wonder why they would post that tale?
From the Amazon CS4 pre-order page:
Licensed owners of Photoshop CS3, Photoshop CS2, or Photoshop CS can upgrade to Adobe Photoshop CS4 for special pricing. Licensed owners of Photoshop CS3 Extended, Photoshop CS3, Photoshop CS2, or Photoshop CS are also eligible for special upgrade pricing to certain editions of Adobe Creative Suite 4.
______________________________________________________________________________________________
Once one learns how to use the Bridge to its full potential, you'll see that the ACR/Bridge combination duplicates most of what Lightroom offers. Owning both apps makes little sense to me.
2. Depth of Field Extended Via Auto Blend Layers
3. The Adjustment Panels
4. On-Screen Image Controls
5. Vibrance is now in Photoshop CS4
6. 3 Great New Additions to Camera Raw
7. Content Aware Resizing Is Here
8. Improvements in Tools Across The Board
9. One Bold Move to 3D
10. Create Your Own Panels with SWF Panel Support and Configurator
-------------------
james wilkins
http://www.drivenwide.com
Also, check out Adobes own page, http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop/photoshop/upgrade/. You can also save a $100 when you upgrade from the later versions of Elements.
Here's the most recent link for the Elements (any version) -> CS3 upgrade.
It's just a matter of time before this is offered for CS4.
When I said that I always wondered why Lightroom was needed at all I left out an important thing - I meant for owners of Photoshop CS3 (not CS2). No problem opening RAWs in CS3 (even tho' I don't do it there anyway - I use Capture One from Phase One for Raw conversions) and data management of Bridge CS3 is as good or better than Lightroom (certainly more configurable).
The one thing that Lightroom does offer beyond Photoshop is "all in one" and "full workflow" capabilities, like Apple's Aperture. However, I use an assortment of tools for each of the various steps in my own workflow and don't find Lightroom's toolset as good as individual ones from other software packages (the old "jack of all trades, master of none" syndrome).
Anyway...all I meant was that owning both Photoshop CS3 (and soon CS4) AND Lightroom makes little sense for me. If others feel differently that's A-Ok with me (and Adobe shareholders).
Cheers...
Brad (an ex-Adobe employee and Adobe shareholder)
John: Photoshops CS3's Automerge feature negates the need for 3rd party stitching software. I've found it to be excellent in all regards.
I know Guy Tal prefers PTGui (pretty sure that's the one), but I have personally not found the need for ANY 3rd party plug-in's or add-on's. Photoshop can do it ALL!
Guy
It made sense that the recent upgrades to the LR version of ACR would migrate to PS. It was just a matter of whether they'd be included in an ACR upgrade to CS3 or whether they'd come in CS4.
I'm not sure what that commentator was referring to but the version of ACR I have in CS3 definitely has a Vibrance slider. The Auto Blend feature seems to automates what could be done fairly easily in a manual process previously with layer masks.
I'm really not trying to rain on anyone's parade but is there a lot here to get excited about?
WRT Bridge vs LR for library management, Bridge 2 with CS3 was an improvement but LR is still far better and now that offline images can be managed in LR2 (can't in Bridge CS3, will see about Bridge CS4) it makes LR even that much better than Bridge. Bridge is really little more than a browser and a hackneyed one at that. Is it apparent that I'm not a Bridge fan?
Also, I think the LightRoom argument is sort of funny, almost like Adobe is splitting the camp. To me LR is like taking a Canon G9 with you to get some excellent images without hauling the big rig, meaning it has its purpose, right? For others it not really useful, as in my case. I have CS3, and I eat/sleep/breathe Layers, so LR wouldn't add much. I think what's confusing is the PS owners wondering if they need LR, meaning, what would it add. I think there's a super simple answer to the debate: download the demo and see if it works for you. Then you'll know.