If buying a Windows computer today, what would be the ideal hardware configuration to maximize the potential of CS4?
Posted by Dan Borzynski on November 18, 2008 at 11:07 AM
What is your budget? I've been on the Dell website to set up one of their business workstations to an ideal machine and that quickly hits $3,500. Granted, that is a very nice machine, but it can be easily done.
Here are some more realistic things (with my ideal $3,500 - $4,000 choices in parenthesis)
Single dual or quadcore (dual quadcores), with mid range speed. As I understand it, a lot of PS really can't take advantage of multiple processing as well as other programs due to the nature of the task. But having the extra processors does help when it can.
32 bit system (64 bit). 64 bit OS may well mean keeping your old machine to run peripherals that won't work with the new one.
4 gig RAM (8 gig). One advantage of a 64 bit machine is the ability to use much larger amounts of memory. If you are working with files from digital cameras, you really won't need massive amounts of memory and the 2-3 gig limit of PS will be fine, unless you have 40, 50, 90 files open at once. A reasonable number of files open, 5-10, will be fine even from the 21-24 megapixel cameras.
Where that extra memory shines is when you begin to hit large files. My 4x5 scans hit 500+ meg and the performance on the machine really nosedives, especially with the 2 gig limit on RAM the machine has.
Two 3-500 gig hard drives (2 1 TB hard drives). You'll fill them, trust me. And they really are pretty cheap.
Video card. The stock one will be fine, UNLESS you are editing video or a gamer.
That is what comes to mind.
EDIT: If you go to Dell, look at the business machines. The home machines come preinstalled with large amounts of trialware that does not uninstall very well. The business machines are free from all of that.
Posted by David Bostedo on November 18, 2008 at 11:11 AM
Glenn - You didn't mention cost, so in general the most expensive machine you can afford, including :
-- Fastest quad core processors you can afford
-- Vista Ultimate 64-bit
-- As much RAM as you can afford (at least 8 GB, DDR3)
-- A high end, at least 512 MB, graphics card
-- SSD drive(s) for PS use
-- High speed drives for applications and OS - maybe a RAID
-- High end montior, 24-30", NEC or Eizo or similar, maybe dual-monitors
-- Wacom tablet if that's your thing
-- DROBO or similar for backup
This could easily run you 10-15 thousand. (I didn't see Dan's post before writing, but he gave some more realistic options on some kind of budget.)
Posted by David Bostedo on November 18, 2008 at 11:17 AM
Also - there are features of PS in CS4 that can use the video card GPU. So depending on your flow, CS4 CAN take advantage of the high end video cards now. Dan is correct that typically the stock cards are fine, but that's changing.
Posted by Scott Nelson on November 18, 2008 at 2:16 PM
Intel Q9650 processor (I hear CS4 can take advantage of multi-core processors)
Windows Vista Home Premium 64bit (Can take advantage of more than 32bit limit of 4gigs)
In my opinion, minimum of 8Gig's of RAM. I hear that DDR3 is not all that much faster than the high end DDR2
I would use a Western Digital Raptor 150gig for the OS and software, a Western Digital Raptor 300gig for photos, and a Western Digital External My Book Home Edition 1TB for backup
If you can afford a high end video card, I recommend a ATI 4870 the cost/performance is great.
I would also consider a Dell 30" LCD monitor, and if the budget allows get 2, the video card should be able to handle the resolutions with no problems
I would also probably water cool the CPU, Chipset and video card(s). I like my system silent
A Wacom Intuos3 12x19
Hopefully money is no object
Posted by Bob Lund on November 18, 2008 at 4:21 PM
Believe me, I'm NOT technically astute, but with most everything 'plug'n play' these days and lots of advice from friends, I took a chance when Vista first hit the street and built my own PC with components that were considered Vista compatible. I've never had a problem with the system or Vista.
I'm pleased as punched with it's performance. Under normal circumstances, with IMatch DAM software, LR2 and CS4 open, it flies. I can lug it down in LR2 with 400+ D3 NEF images, but even then it performs adequately.
The cost without the displays came in at about $1,800. At the time, anything I compared to my plan ran over $3,500.
I used a gorgeous Lian-Li case, it’s great to look at.
I’m looking at a pair of 24” Dell Ultrasharp LCD’s as a Christmas gift to myself . Any opinions?
Boost
8GB Thumb drive for Microsoft 'ReadyBoost' (uses a maximum of 4GB)
Memory
8GB DDR3 memory
Video Card
NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GS [Display adapter] with HDMI output
Drives
(1) 150GB SATA C:\Main
(3) 1TB SATA WD's Image Storage
Displays
Dual 19" Samsung SyncMaster 205 BW's
These were easy to calibrate with a Spyder2
Tablet
Wacom Intuos 3 tablet
Posted by Robert Fisher on November 18, 2008 at 4:27 PM
ROFL! I knew as soon as I read the question that there'd be several responses that were having Glenn spending many thousands of dollars. And I knew they'd be all different. Asking what's an ideal computer configuration seems to be almost as dangerous as asking what camera is better.
Posted by Dan Borzynski on November 18, 2008 at 4:41 PM
True! But there are some common threads running through this. As much memory as you can afford. As much processing power as you can afford. As much hard drive space as you can afford. As powerful video options as you can afford. A higher end Windows OS. We're split on 32 vs 64 bit.
Realistically, get a fast multicore processor, as much memory as possible with 4 gig the absolute minimum and as much drive space as possible.
Beyond that, I've actually priced one Dell workstation with pretty much everything as a Windows dream machine at just under $40,000. Keep in mind, this was for the computer alone, not for peripherals such as external drives, servers, etc, although it did include 128 gig of RAM, 4 1 TB drives, the fastest available processors and some other monster goodies. My manager at the time asked me to go out as see what I could come up with for some data mining work. He almost choked when I showed him that, and then we went on to more realistic machines which I also "built" as options.
I love this Robert you are right it is dangerous , I am not sure what the technical backgrounds are for anybody responding to this question. But mine is that I worked in the computer field from 1995 till I became disabled in 2004 and started playing(i.e. tinkering and programming) PC's back in 1982. I am certified A+ and everything in between(MCP+I, MCSE etc...) all the way up to a Cisco Network Associate and last job was as a project manager for Dell installing the world largest Intranet. Yes I am a GEEKY GEEK!!!!!!! pitiful I know but it I had to learn on my own.
The problem people without the COMPLETE knowledge is they can throw a lot of money away, in customizing there systems. Why do you think Dell, really does that? Dan, said that he configured his Windows dream machine at just under $40G. With my background I do my dream machine every couple of months, and the highest cost i got was around $8G. And that machine was a Web, POP, FTP, Security, and Radius Server as well as Primary Domain Controller with storage and backup management being controlled. I also had it configured to provided a streaming video source for the house.
I am saying this in no way as a brag, but to just be careful not to waste your hard earned money. Especially in this economy, and trust me Michael has plenty of money he doesn't need extra!!! My suggestion now days almost everybody knows a true GEEK, either at work or through the 6 degrees of separation. We usually don't mind offering advice or talking about computer even in our off time, I know a sad fact we live a very different life LOL ;->
If you are thinking about buying a new system you might want to wait especially if you are planing on buying using USB connected hard drive as well. Sometime in mid-2009 USB 3.0 should be ready and available from most vendors, with its up to 6GBs which should help the work flow
And just think of all the money, you would save by asking your neighborhood geek and then you can use that money to buy bigger or better glass !!
I hope nobody was offended by my comments but this was just my input, based on my GEEKNESS and also being a photographer.
Posted by Dan Borzynski on November 18, 2008 at 10:38 PM
Brenden, I think I understand where you are coming from. It is way to easy to throw a lot of money away on stuff you don't need, even for future upgrades.
I had to laugh when I put together the $40,000 machine (which was for data work, not PS work). Even for the 16 million record databases I worked with, it was still serious overkill. The expression on my manager's face was worth it, though, when I showed the description printout and price to him.
The comments on finding a good, local computer geek are pretty good. Most current machines, with some relatively inexpensive upgrades, will work well. Unless you are working with huge files (and no, the files from a 21 megapixel Canon 1DsMIII are not huge although opening 30 of them at once is a lot), you don't need to spend a lot of money,
My original configurations, in the $3,500 range, comes from wanting 64 bit PS and 8 gig of memory for LF scans to speed up a lot of the work I do but I don't *need* it. Even being able to run 4 gig of RAM on my machine would help a lot for speeding things up.
Posted by Erik Stensland on November 18, 2008 at 11:24 PM
Glenn, I've been asking that same question these last couple of weeks and only have about $1k to spend. My web research coupled with my far too limited tech knowledge has led me to believe that memory is key for working with large files, which I do regularly when stitching 30+ images; Lightroom is heavily reliant on the speed of the hard drive; CS4 can make use of higher-end video cards and especially those from Nvidia series 8 and higher; and the larger cache can make a significant difference for heavy processing.
I have spent hours on the Dell website and am now convinced that to get the best I can afford I need to build it myself with components from Newegg.com. Right now I am looking at the following components which would cost me almost exactly $1,000. This assumes I use my current monitor.
I realize that this is not top of the line, but if you are on a budget this is a fairly affordable way to get quite a bit of power. If there is one thing I'd probably try to improve it is the HD speed. How do you think you could improve on an affordable but quality computer system?
Thanks for all the info. I am glad that I can solve my problems for just 40K - originally I thought it would involve some serious money. LOL I was at a workshop last week and Tony Sweet who was one of the instructors responded to a "film is cheap" comment by pointing out that yes, digital photography is cheap, after the first $25,000. I guess he wasn't including the cost of the PC!
Thanks again and I am glad I was able to provide a little entertainment.
Posted by Robert Fisher on November 19, 2008 at 9:05 AM
That sounds like a pretty fair system, Erik.
Just about 2 years ago, I built a new computer. It was, at the time, a fairly decent machine. Not top of the heap, but still pretty good. It's got a 2GHz AMD dual core processor, 4GB of (at the time) fast DDR2 memory, an EVGA graphics card with an NVidia GeForce 7100 chip and 256MB of RAM, an 80 gig primary hard drive for programs and a 320 gig secondary drive for files. It's also got a CD burner and a DVD drive. The DVD drive was an external one I had that I took apart and installed in the computer. Tack on a case, a couple fans a motherboard and the whole thing cost about $1100. I used the copy of WinXP Pro I had from my previous machine. Ordering a similarly equipped machine from Dell or another maker would have cost me more, probably around $1800 to $2000 (not including the monitors). I've got one good sized external drive that I've had for a few years and will be adding to my external storage in the near future. I also kept my old computer, it's connected to my network and I can use it as a storage box if I want as well.
I've got the 3 gig switch turned on in the boot.ini menu so PS runs better (I'm on CS3) and my PS scratch disk is on the secondary hard drive.
At the time I was still using a CRT monitor but a few months after building this box I bought a Dell 2007WFP and a smaller Dell 17" secondary monitor for a total of about $500 (I got the 20" panel on sale).
I work with digital camera files as well as film scans (35mm, MF and the odd LF). I've got files in PS that are well over 1 gig in size and I don't sit around twiddling my thumbs waiting for tasks to complete. I don't typically have more than maybe 6 or 7 photos open at once - the odd time there'll be more if I'm doing a lot of scanning, for example - but even when I do it's not a problem. I defrag my hard drives once a month. On an annual basis I reformat the primary drive and reinstall all the software. Both of these things help keep the environment clean and running efficiently. Even with a hot rodded up box, if regular maintenance isn't done you won't get the most out of it.
The point being, there's 'optimal' or 'the computer guy let loose in the store with the credit card' machine and then there's what's necessary or what's practical. Were I looking to replace my current machine with a new one, I think I could probably do it for about the same price and get a significant uptick in performance.
Well, let's see. I think I would put the most decked out Apple computer possible next to my window......
Posted by Kevin Trinkner on November 20, 2008 at 4:32 PM
With my background I do my dream machine every couple of months, and the highest cost i got was around $8G. And that machine was a Web, POP, FTP, Security, and Radius Server as well as Primary Domain Controller with storage and backup management being controlled. I also had it configured to provided a streaming video source for the house.
Call Security... Dangerous business running all those services on the same box.
Posted by Jerry Greer on November 20, 2008 at 4:55 PM
Dudes,
I am selling my desktop system for what my upgrade cost was at the time (less than 1/4 of the build cost). This is a custom system with a built in RAID (4 HDD) array 0+1, a system HDD plus a scratch disk (yes, that's six HDD's). There's 2 Gig of RAM, graphic card setup for duals, AMD 64 X2 processor and more. Again, this is a custom build, oh and with XP Pro. If anyone is interested give me a yell and I'll get all the specs together.
Discussion
15 repliesHere are some more realistic things (with my ideal $3,500 - $4,000 choices in parenthesis)
Single dual or quadcore (dual quadcores), with mid range speed. As I understand it, a lot of PS really can't take advantage of multiple processing as well as other programs due to the nature of the task. But having the extra processors does help when it can.
32 bit system (64 bit). 64 bit OS may well mean keeping your old machine to run peripherals that won't work with the new one.
4 gig RAM (8 gig). One advantage of a 64 bit machine is the ability to use much larger amounts of memory. If you are working with files from digital cameras, you really won't need massive amounts of memory and the 2-3 gig limit of PS will be fine, unless you have 40, 50, 90 files open at once. A reasonable number of files open, 5-10, will be fine even from the 21-24 megapixel cameras.
Where that extra memory shines is when you begin to hit large files. My 4x5 scans hit 500+ meg and the performance on the machine really nosedives, especially with the 2 gig limit on RAM the machine has.
Two 3-500 gig hard drives (2 1 TB hard drives). You'll fill them, trust me. And they really are pretty cheap.
Video card. The stock one will be fine, UNLESS you are editing video or a gamer.
That is what comes to mind.
EDIT: If you go to Dell, look at the business machines. The home machines come preinstalled with large amounts of trialware that does not uninstall very well. The business machines are free from all of that.
-- Fastest quad core processors you can afford
-- Vista Ultimate 64-bit
-- As much RAM as you can afford (at least 8 GB, DDR3)
-- A high end, at least 512 MB, graphics card
-- SSD drive(s) for PS use
-- High speed drives for applications and OS - maybe a RAID
-- High end montior, 24-30", NEC or Eizo or similar, maybe dual-monitors
-- Wacom tablet if that's your thing
-- DROBO or similar for backup
This could easily run you 10-15 thousand. (I didn't see Dan's post before writing, but he gave some more realistic options on some kind of budget.)
Windows Vista Home Premium 64bit (Can take advantage of more than 32bit limit of 4gigs)
In my opinion, minimum of 8Gig's of RAM. I hear that DDR3 is not all that much faster than the high end DDR2
I would use a Western Digital Raptor 150gig for the OS and software, a Western Digital Raptor 300gig for photos, and a Western Digital External My Book Home Edition 1TB for backup
If you can afford a high end video card, I recommend a ATI 4870 the cost/performance is great.
I would also consider a Dell 30" LCD monitor, and if the budget allows get 2, the video card should be able to handle the resolutions with no problems
I would also probably water cool the CPU, Chipset and video card(s). I like my system silent
A Wacom Intuos3 12x19
Hopefully money is no object
I'm pleased as punched with it's performance. Under normal circumstances, with IMatch DAM software, LR2 and CS4 open, it flies. I can lug it down in LR2 with 400+ D3 NEF images, but even then it performs adequately.
The cost without the displays came in at about $1,800. At the time, anything I compared to my plan ran over $3,500.
I used a gorgeous Lian-Li case, it’s great to look at.
I’m looking at a pair of 24” Dell Ultrasharp LCD’s as a Christmas gift to myself . Any opinions?
Operating System
Vista Ultimate 64bit
Motherboard
MSI P965 Platinum
Bus Clock: 266 megahertz
64 kilobyte primary memory cache
4096 kilobyte secondary memory cache
Processor
2.40 gigahertz Intel Core 2 Duo
Boost
8GB Thumb drive for Microsoft 'ReadyBoost' (uses a maximum of 4GB)
Memory
8GB DDR3 memory
Video Card
NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GS [Display adapter] with HDMI output
Drives
(1) 150GB SATA C:\Main
(3) 1TB SATA WD's Image Storage
Displays
Dual 19" Samsung SyncMaster 205 BW's
These were easy to calibrate with a Spyder2
Tablet
Wacom Intuos 3 tablet
Realistically, get a fast multicore processor, as much memory as possible with 4 gig the absolute minimum and as much drive space as possible.
Beyond that, I've actually priced one Dell workstation with pretty much everything as a Windows dream machine at just under $40,000. Keep in mind, this was for the computer alone, not for peripherals such as external drives, servers, etc, although it did include 128 gig of RAM, 4 1 TB drives, the fastest available processors and some other monster goodies. My manager at the time asked me to go out as see what I could come up with for some data mining work. He almost choked when I showed him that, and then we went on to more realistic machines which I also "built" as options.
The problem people without the COMPLETE knowledge is they can throw a lot of money away, in customizing there systems. Why do you think Dell, really does that? Dan, said that he configured his Windows dream machine at just under $40G. With my background I do my dream machine every couple of months, and the highest cost i got was around $8G. And that machine was a Web, POP, FTP, Security, and Radius Server as well as Primary Domain Controller with storage and backup management being controlled. I also had it configured to provided a streaming video source for the house.
I am saying this in no way as a brag, but to just be careful not to waste your hard earned money. Especially in this economy, and trust me Michael has plenty of money he doesn't need extra!!!
If you are thinking about buying a new system you might want to wait especially if you are planing on buying using USB connected hard drive as well. Sometime in mid-2009 USB 3.0 should be ready and available from most vendors, with its up to 6GBs which should help the work flow
And just think of all the money, you would save by asking your neighborhood geek
I hope nobody was offended by my comments but this was just my input, based on my GEEKNESS and also being a photographer.
I had to laugh when I put together the $40,000 machine (which was for data work, not PS work). Even for the 16 million record databases I worked with, it was still serious overkill. The expression on my manager's face was worth it, though, when I showed the description printout and price to him.
The comments on finding a good, local computer geek are pretty good. Most current machines, with some relatively inexpensive upgrades, will work well. Unless you are working with huge files (and no, the files from a 21 megapixel Canon 1DsMIII are not huge although opening 30 of them at once is a lot), you don't need to spend a lot of money,
My original configurations, in the $3,500 range, comes from wanting 64 bit PS and 8 gig of memory for LF scans to speed up a lot of the work I do but I don't *need* it. Even being able to run 4 gig of RAM on my machine would help a lot for speeding things up.
I have spent hours on the Dell website and am now convinced that to get the best I can afford I need to build it myself with components from Newegg.com. Right now I am looking at the following components which would cost me almost exactly $1,000. This assumes I use my current monitor.
- Intel Q9550 processor Core 2 Quad 2.83GHz 12MB L2 Cache
- 8 gig of DDR2
- GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3R motherboard (Supports up to 16GB)
- Nvidia GeForce 9600 (512 mb) video card
- ATX case
- 640GB 7200 drive
- Vista Home Premium 64bit
I realize that this is not top of the line, but if you are on a budget this is a fairly affordable way to get quite a bit of power. If there is one thing I'd probably try to improve it is the HD speed. How do you think you could improve on an affordable but quality computer system?
I get the idea though - more is better, but only to a degree. I found this article which summarizes that nicely. http://www.peachpit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=1247538&seqNum=2
Thanks again and I am glad I was able to provide a little entertainment.
Just about 2 years ago, I built a new computer. It was, at the time, a fairly decent machine. Not top of the heap, but still pretty good. It's got a 2GHz AMD dual core processor, 4GB of (at the time) fast DDR2 memory, an EVGA graphics card with an NVidia GeForce 7100 chip and 256MB of RAM, an 80 gig primary hard drive for programs and a 320 gig secondary drive for files. It's also got a CD burner and a DVD drive. The DVD drive was an external one I had that I took apart and installed in the computer. Tack on a case, a couple fans a motherboard and the whole thing cost about $1100. I used the copy of WinXP Pro I had from my previous machine. Ordering a similarly equipped machine from Dell or another maker would have cost me more, probably around $1800 to $2000 (not including the monitors). I've got one good sized external drive that I've had for a few years and will be adding to my external storage in the near future. I also kept my old computer, it's connected to my network and I can use it as a storage box if I want as well.
I've got the 3 gig switch turned on in the boot.ini menu so PS runs better (I'm on CS3) and my PS scratch disk is on the secondary hard drive.
At the time I was still using a CRT monitor but a few months after building this box I bought a Dell 2007WFP and a smaller Dell 17" secondary monitor for a total of about $500 (I got the 20" panel on sale).
I work with digital camera files as well as film scans (35mm, MF and the odd LF). I've got files in PS that are well over 1 gig in size and I don't sit around twiddling my thumbs waiting for tasks to complete. I don't typically have more than maybe 6 or 7 photos open at once - the odd time there'll be more if I'm doing a lot of scanning, for example - but even when I do it's not a problem. I defrag my hard drives once a month. On an annual basis I reformat the primary drive and reinstall all the software. Both of these things help keep the environment clean and running efficiently. Even with a hot rodded up box, if regular maintenance isn't done you won't get the most out of it.
The point being, there's 'optimal' or 'the computer guy let loose in the store with the credit card' machine and then there's what's necessary or what's practical. Were I looking to replace my current machine with a new one, I think I could probably do it for about the same price and get a significant uptick in performance.
Call Security... Dangerous business running all those services on the same box.
I am selling my desktop system for what my upgrade cost was at the time (less than 1/4 of the build cost). This is a custom system with a built in RAID (4 HDD) array 0+1, a system HDD plus a scratch disk (yes, that's six HDD's). There's 2 Gig of RAM, graphic card setup for duals, AMD 64 X2 processor and more. Again, this is a custom build, oh and with XP Pro. If anyone is interested give me a yell and I'll get all the specs together.