Workflow for the web using Digital Photo Pro and PS
Discussion
5 replies
Posted by Charles Martin on January 12, 2009 at 10:41 PM
Hello all,
Right now I am using a simplified workflow for my landscape photos that goes something like this:
Use DPP to set picture style (default Faithful), white balance (default Daylight), exposure compensation, contrast and saturation (default +3). The goal is a TIFF output that has headroom for further adjustments in Photoshop. This includes a histogram with lower tail above 0 and upper tail less than 255. DPP is also used to make corrections for vignetting, CA and chromatic noise where necessary. No sharpening is done in DPP.
The image is then transferred to PS as a 16 bit TIFF. Basic cropping, local contrast enhancement using unsharp mask, saturation adjustment and level/curves adjustment is performed while in 16 bit mode. After conversion to 8 bit, final density adjustments are made and sharpening is performed for good appearance at 100%. At this point, the image should be ready for final processing for web or printing.
For the web, the only additional operations I am performing are resize and resharpen. The results can be seen in a photo I posted in the Earth, Sea & Sky Gallery January 11.
My questions are:
Are there any fundamental problems with this workflow?
Is there any way to avoid the "jaggies" that DPP tends to produce in fine detail such as the branches in the lower left of my photo?
Are there more or less standard Unsharp Mask settings or procedures recommended as starting points when post processing for the web, or when printing for that matter?
Are there up to date on-line tutorials that could be recommended for basic information on post processing of landscape photos?
My camera is a Canon 30D, if that has any bearing on procedures or settings.
Thanks for listening,
Chuck
Posted by John Mumaw on January 12, 2009 at 11:42 PM
Your workflow looks pretty sound to me.
Are you using adjustment layers when you work with Levels, Curves, Saturation, etc.?
These will allow you to return and tweak the images later if you change your mind down the road. Adjustment layers are non-destructive, meaning that they aren't applied directly to the pixels until you flatten the image layers. Adjustment layers also create layer masks which allow you to selectively apply your edits, rather than a 'global' fix over the entire image.
Another reason to use adjustment layers is because whenever you adjust contrast via Levels/Curves or Brightness/Contrast, this almost always results in saturating the image just a bit more. By changing the Blend mode in the Layers palette from 'Normal' to 'Luminosity', this means that the edit does not affect color values.
You always want to sharpen your image on a duplicate layer. After all, large blank areas like skies don't need to be sharpened at all.
Sharpening is a pretty destructive edit, and by using layer masks, one can 'erase' the sharpening from those blank areas, causing less destruction to areas like skies that are easily damaged and which can show up in print. When I sharpen images on a duplicate layer, I always change the Blend mode from 'Normal' to 'Luminosity' for the same reason as noted above. Sharpening the color values can lead to artifacts and other nasties.
The image you posted is almost flawlessly optimized. I don't see the 'jaggies' you're referring to on the Web version. I usually see these when viewing images at percentages that aren't multiples of 25 (e.g. 33%, 66%, etc.).
I know that DPP does a good job with processing RAW images, but have you considered using ACR in Photoshop? Depending on your version of PS, ACR has extensive editing features, and your workflow will be greatly simplified.
I have used adjustment layers and masks, but I am in the process of starting from scratch with post processing since my prior results always seemed to either lack impact or look overprocessed and "fake". Given the current economic climate I am stuck with the tools I have for a while, and I think I can make them work. So DPP and PhotoShop 7 are what I will be using.
You have given me a lot to think about. I have not really experimented that much with selective sharpening, nor paid much attention to blend modes. I have, however, seen the color changes and sharpening artifacts you refer to. I will take your suggestions and start working on techniques that produce the changes I am looking for, without destructive side effects. Now some specific questions:
Since my version of PS does not seem to support 16 bit layers, what editing is appropriate to complete before converting to 8 bit? I have been trying to make basic global density and saturation adjustments in 16 bit mode, including local contrast enhancement using Unsharp Mask, to preserve tonal gradation. I sometimes use the History Brush to remove changes from selected areas before converting to 8 bit.
Can you provide me some general pointers, or direct me to a good tutorial, on selective sharpening and local contrast enhancement for landscapes? Currently, I use a modest amount of Unsharp Mask with a radius setting of 30-40 to bring out texture in flat areas like shadows. I probably should be more selective in where I apply contrast enhancement, but have only been using the History Brush to remove the effect where it produces nasty halos, like at the horizon. For final sharpening I generally use a radius setting of 1.0 for prints and 0.5 for web, and adjust the amount of sharpening to strike the best balance between sharpening and artifacts.
Thanks again,
Chuck
Posted by John Mumaw on January 13, 2009 at 10:29 PM
DPP and PS 7 are hardly a subpar combination. There is a workaround for utilizing the Luminosity blend modes without resorting to layers.
Immediately after you do a Levels/Curves/Contrast/USM adjustment, go to Edit->Fade.
This will give you control over opacity and allow you to choose the Luminosity blend mode.
Needless to say, you don't want to use this blend mode with saturation adjustments.
I'm not sure whether this works with 16 bit images in PS 7. Please let me know if you decide to try it.
Although I've never used it, the History Brush sounds like a good way to erase editing effects from certain areas.
My 'Local Contrast Enhancement' USM settings are:
Amount-20
Radius-50
Threshold-0
..so it sounds like you're in the ballpark there. Your final sharpening sounds good to me also.
I'll reiterate that your image looked very good to me as far as optimizing it went. I just hope these few tips can help you lessen the damage that all editing causes to one degree or another.
Posted by Robert Fisher on January 14, 2009 at 8:43 AM
Are you applying your sharpening on a separate layer? If not, then you might want to start. It'll give you more control over the final result. You can erase sharpening on that separate layer which gives you more flexibility. You can then also adjust the opacity of the sharpening on that separate layer if need by.
If you're getting a lot of halos with USM, then you might want to look at the High Pass method which will sharpen nicely, is tunable depending on the Blend Mode you choose as well as the opacity and also gives you the flexibility of erasing the effect in whole or in part where and when necessary. In general you can sharpen more aggressively with it than USM and not get the same damage to the photo (i.e., halos) as you would with USM.
Posted by Charles Martin on January 14, 2009 at 11:20 PM
Well, the Fade command does not seem to be active in 16 bit mode with PS 7, although it does work as John described in 8 bit mode. The difference between Normal and Luminosity blend modes is subtle, but Luminosity seemed to preserve more shadow contrast in an image darkened with Levels.
I do not get a lot of halos in images converted with DPP, but will try the high pass method of sharpening once I figure out how it works. Halos are more of a problem in jpegs from the camera.
Discussion
5 repliesRight now I am using a simplified workflow for my landscape photos that goes something like this:
Use DPP to set picture style (default Faithful), white balance (default Daylight), exposure compensation, contrast and saturation (default +3). The goal is a TIFF output that has headroom for further adjustments in Photoshop. This includes a histogram with lower tail above 0 and upper tail less than 255. DPP is also used to make corrections for vignetting, CA and chromatic noise where necessary. No sharpening is done in DPP.
The image is then transferred to PS as a 16 bit TIFF. Basic cropping, local contrast enhancement using unsharp mask, saturation adjustment and level/curves adjustment is performed while in 16 bit mode. After conversion to 8 bit, final density adjustments are made and sharpening is performed for good appearance at 100%. At this point, the image should be ready for final processing for web or printing.
For the web, the only additional operations I am performing are resize and resharpen. The results can be seen in a photo I posted in the Earth, Sea & Sky Gallery January 11.
My questions are:
Are there any fundamental problems with this workflow?
Is there any way to avoid the "jaggies" that DPP tends to produce in fine detail such as the branches in the lower left of my photo?
Are there more or less standard Unsharp Mask settings or procedures recommended as starting points when post processing for the web, or when printing for that matter?
Are there up to date on-line tutorials that could be recommended for basic information on post processing of landscape photos?
My camera is a Canon 30D, if that has any bearing on procedures or settings.
Thanks for listening,
Chuck
Are you using adjustment layers when you work with Levels, Curves, Saturation, etc.?
These will allow you to return and tweak the images later if you change your mind down the road. Adjustment layers are non-destructive, meaning that they aren't applied directly to the pixels until you flatten the image layers. Adjustment layers also create layer masks which allow you to selectively apply your edits, rather than a 'global' fix over the entire image.
Another reason to use adjustment layers is because whenever you adjust contrast via Levels/Curves or Brightness/Contrast, this almost always results in saturating the image just a bit more. By changing the Blend mode in the Layers palette from 'Normal' to 'Luminosity', this means that the edit does not affect color values.
You always want to sharpen your image on a duplicate layer. After all, large blank areas like skies don't need to be sharpened at all.
Sharpening is a pretty destructive edit, and by using layer masks, one can 'erase' the sharpening from those blank areas, causing less destruction to areas like skies that are easily damaged and which can show up in print. When I sharpen images on a duplicate layer, I always change the Blend mode from 'Normal' to 'Luminosity' for the same reason as noted above. Sharpening the color values can lead to artifacts and other nasties.
The image you posted is almost flawlessly optimized. I don't see the 'jaggies' you're referring to on the Web version. I usually see these when viewing images at percentages that aren't multiples of 25 (e.g. 33%, 66%, etc.).
I know that DPP does a good job with processing RAW images, but have you considered using ACR in Photoshop? Depending on your version of PS, ACR has extensive editing features, and your workflow will be greatly simplified.
I have used adjustment layers and masks, but I am in the process of starting from scratch with post processing since my prior results always seemed to either lack impact or look overprocessed and "fake". Given the current economic climate I am stuck with the tools I have for a while, and I think I can make them work. So DPP and PhotoShop 7 are what I will be using.
You have given me a lot to think about. I have not really experimented that much with selective sharpening, nor paid much attention to blend modes. I have, however, seen the color changes and sharpening artifacts you refer to. I will take your suggestions and start working on techniques that produce the changes I am looking for, without destructive side effects. Now some specific questions:
Since my version of PS does not seem to support 16 bit layers, what editing is appropriate to complete before converting to 8 bit? I have been trying to make basic global density and saturation adjustments in 16 bit mode, including local contrast enhancement using Unsharp Mask, to preserve tonal gradation. I sometimes use the History Brush to remove changes from selected areas before converting to 8 bit.
Can you provide me some general pointers, or direct me to a good tutorial, on selective sharpening and local contrast enhancement for landscapes? Currently, I use a modest amount of Unsharp Mask with a radius setting of 30-40 to bring out texture in flat areas like shadows. I probably should be more selective in where I apply contrast enhancement, but have only been using the History Brush to remove the effect where it produces nasty halos, like at the horizon. For final sharpening I generally use a radius setting of 1.0 for prints and 0.5 for web, and adjust the amount of sharpening to strike the best balance between sharpening and artifacts.
Thanks again,
Chuck
Immediately after you do a Levels/Curves/Contrast/USM adjustment, go to Edit->Fade.
This will give you control over opacity and allow you to choose the Luminosity blend mode.
Needless to say, you don't want to use this blend mode with saturation adjustments.
I'm not sure whether this works with 16 bit images in PS 7. Please let me know if you decide to try it.
Although I've never used it, the History Brush sounds like a good way to erase editing effects from certain areas.
My 'Local Contrast Enhancement' USM settings are:
Amount-20
Radius-50
Threshold-0
..so it sounds like you're in the ballpark there. Your final sharpening sounds good to me also.
I'll reiterate that your image looked very good to me as far as optimizing it went. I just hope these few tips can help you lessen the damage that all editing causes to one degree or another.
If you're getting a lot of halos with USM, then you might want to look at the High Pass method which will sharpen nicely, is tunable depending on the Blend Mode you choose as well as the opacity and also gives you the flexibility of erasing the effect in whole or in part where and when necessary. In general you can sharpen more aggressively with it than USM and not get the same damage to the photo (i.e., halos) as you would with USM.
I do not get a lot of halos in images converted with DPP, but will try the high pass method of sharpening once I figure out how it works. Halos are more of a problem in jpegs from the camera.
Thanks for the tips,
Chuck