Posted by Ed Cordes on January 17, 2009 at 11:29 PM
I believe the default setting is sRGB for the color settings - Working Space box in CS3. Since my images are in Adobe GB I have been tempted to change the CS3 setting to this. However, my monitor cannot display Adobe RGB, so should I leave it at the default or is changing it to Adobe RGB OK? Will changing it screw things up?
Posted by Nat Coalson on January 18, 2009 at 12:55 AM
Adobe RGB is the most flexible of the available working spaces, but ProPhoto has the largest gamut so that's the one I use.
Your display will likely never be able to show all the colors in your photos; that's something we just have to live with. Even so, you should strive retain the most possible colors in the files themselves, that's why you should use a large color space. And you can train your eye to deal with the relatively limited gamut of the display space.
Don't use these any of these working spaces for your display output; use a hardware calibration device (eg EyeOne) to make a custom profile, or at least use the profile provided by the display manufacturer. If none is available stick with sRGB for your display.
The color management system in your OS will translate the colors in the file to the device space for your display.
Posted by David Taylor on January 18, 2009 at 2:52 AM
I too use ProPhoto, only because the colors will not be clipped permanently on your master files. At some point, there may be a technology that allows us to "print" (or whatever the media display of choice is in the future) that will allow us to show all range of colors. Like Nathaniel said, if you are serious at all about your photography, invest in a good monitor calibration "spyder". I also use the EyeOne, and it does a great job. Your prints and other output, when used in a color calibrated manner, will be much more accurate and consistent. It might be a good idea to also invest in a good "Color Management" book for digital photography.
Posted by Kah Kit Yoong on January 18, 2009 at 4:41 AM
I use Adobe RGB on my MacBook Pro. The monitor may not be capable of rendering all the colours but I can see a big difference between sRGB & Adobe RGB.
Posted by Wim Reyns on January 18, 2009 at 8:18 AM
A Dslr sensor can in fact capture/render more color's than those available in the AdobeRGB Color space,
so that's the reason i use ProPhotoRGB, it's simple the closest match.
If you use AdobeRGB you are already trowing away color information.
ps. If you capture your images in raw format, they are not color managed. that's where the raw converter steps in.
Wim.
Posted by Robert Fisher on January 18, 2009 at 8:25 AM
ProPhoto. I want to be able to take advantage of advances in monitor and printing technology that will allow for expanded gamut reproduction and don't want to have to go back and reprocess my RAW files to get it.
As Nat says, using a colour space like AdobeRGB for your monitor isn't a great idea. Profiling your monitor so that colours are properly adjusted and displayed is the best option.
Posted by Ed Cordes on January 18, 2009 at 9:10 AM
Thanks for all the responses. Let me clarify. I have been calibrating my system with the G/M Eye One for a few years. I shoot in RAW and during conversion set the color space ACR should use to send to CS3 either Adobe RGB or ProPhoto depending on the image. I realize I can convert to any of these using the "convert color space" tool in "Edit".
My question is related to another part of the "Edit" series of tools. If I click on "Color Space" I have an option to set the "Working Space" to various settings. I don't believe this changes any info in the image. I believe it sets the color space the monitor will display the image in. So, I wondered if this should be set to the default sRGB, Adobe RGB or the monitor profile the Eye One created?
Thanks again for you input.
Posted by John Mumaw on January 18, 2009 at 12:38 PM
I believe it ([i]Working Spaces) sets the color space the monitor will display the image in.
[/i]
Not quite.
This particular setting comes into play only in a few situations. Working Spaces determines what color space PS assumes for files without embedded profiles.
I choose AdobeRGB in order to tell PS that I prefer to be dealing with RGB images as ARGB, and to assume that all files without embedded profiles are in ARGB.
Posted by Robert Fisher on January 18, 2009 at 5:17 PM
Ed, your better bet, in my opinion, is to set your default for exporting RAW images out of ACR to a wider colour space; either ProPhoto or Adobe, and do the conversion as and when needed. That way you don't have to go back and reprocess the RAW file to get a new version. Start with the biggest set of options and the most flexibility and work down from there as needed. It just seems to be a more efficient process to me. If you go and reprocess the RAW file each time then you need to re-edit the converted RAW file again too.
The choice of working space in PS works in conjunction with the choices you make under Color Management Policies in the Edit>Color Settings in PS. If, for example, you have your working space set to AdobeRGB and you export an image from ACR in ProPhoto or sRGB you have a profile mismatch. Depending on what you selected for your Color Management Policies will determine what happens with that profile mismatch. You'll be prompted for what you want to do or the file will be converted automatically (or you can have it set to do nothing in which case the embedded profile will be honoured even if you don't want it to be; but to me that's a poor choice because you're giving up control of your colour management settings, just as automatic conversion isn't the best choice). These settings will also determine how images with no embedded profile are handled as John said above.
The colour management settings in PS don't, as John noted, determine how the monitor will display your photo. Your monitor is likely limited to something around sRGB in what it can display. That doesn't mean you should set your working space to sRGB and export all your RAW files in sRGB; however.
If you have your Color Management settings in PS set to notify you of a profile mismatch and you don't want to have to deal with profile mismatches all the time, set your output colour space in ACR to match your working space in PS - both of which, for me, are ProPhotoRGB for the reasons stated in my earlier comments.
Posted by Ed Cordes on January 18, 2009 at 5:31 PM
John and Robert, thanks for the input. This does make sense. So, if I export from ACR in ProPhoto and have the working space ProPhoto all will be OK. Then if I find too many out of gamut issues when I proof before printing I can convert to Adobe RGB just for printing but do not save it that way. Then my TIFF files will be ProPhoto RGB as well, but could be converted any time.
If I read it correctly the ProPhoto setting in ACR and Working Space will avoid mismatch and give greatest control as long as I soft proof prior to printing?
If this is wrong please let me know.
Posted by John Mumaw on January 18, 2009 at 6:27 PM
Bear in mind that ProPhoto is definitely not meant to be used as an 8 bit color space because of its wide gamut, so when you eventually convert a duplicate copy of your image to 8 bit, that's the time that you'll want to convert color space, as well.
Posted by Ed Cordes on January 18, 2009 at 6:51 PM
John, I agree RE the conversion. When I save for web I always convert to sRGB first and do not allow the Save for Web algorithm do it for me. Web posting or slide shows are the only time I use 8 bit.
Posted by Robert Fisher on January 18, 2009 at 8:19 PM
Yeah, that sounds like a pretty good way to go, Ed.
Converting to AdobeRGB won't automatically solve all out of gamut issues for printing though. It really depends on the image and the paper. Rather than convert to AdobeRGB, you can make a separate Hue/Saturation adjustment layer for printing where you make the necessary adjustments to correct for the out of gamut colours yourself which keeps you in complete control of the colours in your photos.
Discussion
12 repliesYour display will likely never be able to show all the colors in your photos; that's something we just have to live with. Even so, you should strive retain the most possible colors in the files themselves, that's why you should use a large color space. And you can train your eye to deal with the relatively limited gamut of the display space.
Don't use these any of these working spaces for your display output; use a hardware calibration device (eg EyeOne) to make a custom profile, or at least use the profile provided by the display manufacturer. If none is available stick with sRGB for your display.
The color management system in your OS will translate the colors in the file to the device space for your display.
so that's the reason i use ProPhotoRGB, it's simple the closest match.
If you use AdobeRGB you are already trowing away color information.
ps. If you capture your images in raw format, they are not color managed. that's where the raw converter steps in.
Wim.
As Nat says, using a colour space like AdobeRGB for your monitor isn't a great idea. Profiling your monitor so that colours are properly adjusted and displayed is the best option.
My question is related to another part of the "Edit" series of tools. If I click on "Color Space" I have an option to set the "Working Space" to various settings. I don't believe this changes any info in the image. I believe it sets the color space the monitor will display the image in. So, I wondered if this should be set to the default sRGB, Adobe RGB or the monitor profile the Eye One created?
Thanks again for you input.
Not quite.
This particular setting comes into play only in a few situations. Working Spaces determines what color space PS assumes for files without embedded profiles.
I choose AdobeRGB in order to tell PS that I prefer to be dealing with RGB images as ARGB, and to assume that all files without embedded profiles are in ARGB.
The choice of working space in PS works in conjunction with the choices you make under Color Management Policies in the Edit>Color Settings in PS. If, for example, you have your working space set to AdobeRGB and you export an image from ACR in ProPhoto or sRGB you have a profile mismatch. Depending on what you selected for your Color Management Policies will determine what happens with that profile mismatch. You'll be prompted for what you want to do or the file will be converted automatically (or you can have it set to do nothing in which case the embedded profile will be honoured even if you don't want it to be; but to me that's a poor choice because you're giving up control of your colour management settings, just as automatic conversion isn't the best choice). These settings will also determine how images with no embedded profile are handled as John said above.
The colour management settings in PS don't, as John noted, determine how the monitor will display your photo. Your monitor is likely limited to something around sRGB in what it can display. That doesn't mean you should set your working space to sRGB and export all your RAW files in sRGB; however.
If you have your Color Management settings in PS set to notify you of a profile mismatch and you don't want to have to deal with profile mismatches all the time, set your output colour space in ACR to match your working space in PS - both of which, for me, are ProPhotoRGB for the reasons stated in my earlier comments.
If I read it correctly the ProPhoto setting in ACR and Working Space will avoid mismatch and give greatest control as long as I soft proof prior to printing?
If this is wrong please let me know.
Bear in mind that ProPhoto is definitely not meant to be used as an 8 bit color space because of its wide gamut, so when you eventually convert a duplicate copy of your image to 8 bit, that's the time that you'll want to convert color space, as well.
Converting to AdobeRGB won't automatically solve all out of gamut issues for printing though. It really depends on the image and the paper. Rather than convert to AdobeRGB, you can make a separate Hue/Saturation adjustment layer for printing where you make the necessary adjustments to correct for the out of gamut colours yourself which keeps you in complete control of the colours in your photos.