I am hoping to receive some information from anyone who has used a wide-gamut RGB monitor such as the NEC spectraview, Eizo CG 221, or the newly annouced LaCie 720 series. All of these monitors have LED baclights, and have gamuts wider than Adobe RGB. I recently bought a Samsung XL20, which by all appearances appears to be the hardware platform for thr LaCie 724. Playing with the XL20 was a revelation, it truly has a far wider gamut than my old LaCie 321, and is indeed wider than Adobe RGB. The catch is that the only way I can discern that is by seeing the gamut plots using the supplied calibration software. When I actually compare my LaCie (which just about covers sRGB) and the Samsung (105% Adobe RGB) side-by-side, and then compare them to prints I have, the differences between the monitors is quite small. About the only time I could see a difference at all was in some deep blue-cast shadows. I then read a review of the NEC spectraview monitor by Michael Reichmann (Luminous Landscape) where he explained that the rest of the imaging chain (software, PS, video card, OS, etc.) has not yet caught up to the Adobe RGB gamut displays. Is this correct? After all, if the colorimeter is able to plot gamuts larger than Adobe RGB based on displayed colors, why cannot color-managed programs like Photoshop do so?
Posted by Robert Fisher on January 18, 2009 at 5:03 PM
PS absolutely can work with images in a bigger colour space than AdobeRGB.
There are a few things potentially at work here that may be limiting what you see in the print and whether it matches the wider gamut that the monitor can reproduce. First, you have to be working with image files that are in a wider space (e.g., AdobeRGB). Assuming you are, then the printer you're using may or may not be able to reproduce beyond AdobeRGB. Some can, some can't. Some can in some colours but not others. Third, gamut of the paper you're using will limit what can be reproduced irrespective of what the monitor shows you or what the printer can do.
If you're working on a Windoze platform, you can download and install the Windows Color Control Applet for WinXP (if you haven't already)- don't know if it works with Vista or if it's included with Vista. It allows you to view the gamut of a particular profile. You can look at the profile for the paper you're using and compare it to AdobeRGB or ProPhotoRGB (soft proofing does much the same) to see how they compare. The CCA only allows you to view one gamut plot at a time. If you're on a Mac, it has a similar utility - don't know what it's called - but it allows you to compare two gamut plots which is kind of neat.
Posted by Amy Hopp on January 19, 2009 at 11:56 AM
Kartik, how do you like your Samsung? That's a monitor I've been reviewing. I'm pulling my hair out trying to figure out what LCD best suits photographers...
Posted by Robert Fisher on January 19, 2009 at 12:57 PM
Amy, are you looking for a monitor with an LED backlight or the standard fluorescent?
If you're looking for one with LED backlighting, and money isn't an issue, the HP Dreamcolor 24" LP2480zx would be a terrific choice.
Irrespective of what type of backlight, ideally you want a monitor with an S-IPS panel. There are new panel types that are better than S-IPS but they're more expensive and harder to find (AS-IPS and A-TW-IPS). There are also a few monitors out there that use an H-IPS panel. Basically the same as an S-IPS. As a fallback, an S-PVA panel would be a reasonable choice. The Samsung Kartik notes has an S-PVA panel.
Go to this site, http://www.flatpanelshd.com/panels.php and type 's-ips' into the search field (without the quotes). It'll return all monitors with that panel type, both current and discontinued. If you want to look at monitors from a specific manufacturer or of a specific size, you can type those into the search field. In addition to the panel type, you want a monitor that has a full set of user adjustable controls (called DDC/CI and/or OSD). The more adjustability the monitor has, the better you'll be able to calibrate it and the more accurate your monitor profile will be. I recently became aware of this site, http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.php?ty=6&ma1=36&mo1=332&p1=3107&ma2=88&mo2=342&p2=3161&ph=8 which doesn't have a complete database of monitors but it lets you compare two monitors side by side as far as features and specs. It's not a bad reference.
If I had 2 grand burning a hole in my pocket, I'd be all over that HP.
Posted by Amy Hopp on January 20, 2009 at 12:10 AM
Robert, thank you so much! Your info will help me in my search...
In order to really see the difference between an sRGB-gamut monitor and an AdobeRGB-gamut monitor, you need to be sure that your images are not contrained to a small working space (make sure they're not tagged with sRGB for example) - and you would have to be working with images that make use of that extended gamut. It is surprising how few colors in most pictures fall out into that extended gamut area. These displays are capable of such color that the most saturated greens and reds can look almost florescent on the screen. Unless your original image contains such colors, you may not see much difference.
The whole idea is that these screens are capable of reproducing these AdobeRGB colors; that doesn't necessarily mean that every image will have those colors. If you want to be wowed, try taking a scene with strong colors and convert it to ProphotoRGB in Photoshop. The result will be rather garish, but at least you'll start to see what the difference between these monitors is.
Ideally you'd want more than a 3D profile viewer to see this. ColorThink software allows you to bring images into a 3D gamut viewer so you can actually see where the pixels of the image lie in the monitor space or the printer space. Here's a slide from a presentation I did recently that shows an image, and how it lays out across different working spaces.
This is just a 2D "overhead" view. If the OP wants to send me a (scaled down) image and their monitor profile, I can plug those in and show the results here.
Discussion
5 repliesI am hoping to receive some information from anyone who has used a wide-gamut RGB monitor such as the NEC spectraview, Eizo CG 221, or the newly annouced LaCie 720 series. All of these monitors have LED baclights, and have gamuts wider than Adobe RGB. I recently bought a Samsung XL20, which by all appearances appears to be the hardware platform for thr LaCie 724. Playing with the XL20 was a revelation, it truly has a far wider gamut than my old LaCie 321, and is indeed wider than Adobe RGB. The catch is that the only way I can discern that is by seeing the gamut plots using the supplied calibration software. When I actually compare my LaCie (which just about covers sRGB) and the Samsung (105% Adobe RGB) side-by-side, and then compare them to prints I have, the differences between the monitors is quite small. About the only time I could see a difference at all was in some deep blue-cast shadows. I then read a review of the NEC spectraview monitor by Michael Reichmann (Luminous Landscape) where he explained that the rest of the imaging chain (software, PS, video card, OS, etc.) has not yet caught up to the Adobe RGB gamut displays. Is this correct? After all, if the colorimeter is able to plot gamuts larger than Adobe RGB based on displayed colors, why cannot color-managed programs like Photoshop do so?
There are a few things potentially at work here that may be limiting what you see in the print and whether it matches the wider gamut that the monitor can reproduce. First, you have to be working with image files that are in a wider space (e.g., AdobeRGB). Assuming you are, then the printer you're using may or may not be able to reproduce beyond AdobeRGB. Some can, some can't. Some can in some colours but not others. Third, gamut of the paper you're using will limit what can be reproduced irrespective of what the monitor shows you or what the printer can do.
If you're working on a Windoze platform, you can download and install the Windows Color Control Applet for WinXP (if you haven't already)- don't know if it works with Vista or if it's included with Vista. It allows you to view the gamut of a particular profile. You can look at the profile for the paper you're using and compare it to AdobeRGB or ProPhotoRGB (soft proofing does much the same) to see how they compare. The CCA only allows you to view one gamut plot at a time. If you're on a Mac, it has a similar utility - don't know what it's called - but it allows you to compare two gamut plots which is kind of neat.
If you're looking for one with LED backlighting, and money isn't an issue, the HP Dreamcolor 24" LP2480zx would be a terrific choice.
Irrespective of what type of backlight, ideally you want a monitor with an S-IPS panel. There are new panel types that are better than S-IPS but they're more expensive and harder to find (AS-IPS and A-TW-IPS). There are also a few monitors out there that use an H-IPS panel. Basically the same as an S-IPS. As a fallback, an S-PVA panel would be a reasonable choice. The Samsung Kartik notes has an S-PVA panel.
Go to this site, http://www.flatpanelshd.com/panels.php and type 's-ips' into the search field (without the quotes). It'll return all monitors with that panel type, both current and discontinued. If you want to look at monitors from a specific manufacturer or of a specific size, you can type those into the search field. In addition to the panel type, you want a monitor that has a full set of user adjustable controls (called DDC/CI and/or OSD). The more adjustability the monitor has, the better you'll be able to calibrate it and the more accurate your monitor profile will be. I recently became aware of this site, http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.php?ty=6&ma1=36&mo1=332&p1=3107&ma2=88&mo2=342&p2=3161&ph=8 which doesn't have a complete database of monitors but it lets you compare two monitors side by side as far as features and specs. It's not a bad reference.
If I had 2 grand burning a hole in my pocket, I'd be all over that HP.
http://www.colorwiki.com/wiki/HP_LP2480zx_Dreamcolor
In order to really see the difference between an sRGB-gamut monitor and an AdobeRGB-gamut monitor, you need to be sure that your images are not contrained to a small working space (make sure they're not tagged with sRGB for example) - and you would have to be working with images that make use of that extended gamut. It is surprising how few colors in most pictures fall out into that extended gamut area. These displays are capable of such color that the most saturated greens and reds can look almost florescent on the screen. Unless your original image contains such colors, you may not see much difference.
The whole idea is that these screens are capable of reproducing these AdobeRGB colors; that doesn't necessarily mean that every image will have those colors. If you want to be wowed, try taking a scene with strong colors and convert it to ProphotoRGB in Photoshop. The result will be rather garish, but at least you'll start to see what the difference between these monitors is.
Ideally you'd want more than a 3D profile viewer to see this. ColorThink software allows you to bring images into a 3D gamut viewer so you can actually see where the pixels of the image lie in the monitor space or the printer space. Here's a slide from a presentation I did recently that shows an image, and how it lays out across different working spaces.
http://www.colorwiki.com/images/9/9f/Working_spaces.jpg
This is just a 2D "overhead" view. If the OP wants to send me a (scaled down) image and their monitor profile, I can plug those in and show the results here.