At a recent church art show I sold a lot more photo note cards than I did prints. I ended up making more money on prints, but only because I got lucky and sold a big panoramic print.
I got glimpses of the other stuff that people were buying. Many had had small items, nice little art objects, but not a big commitment like a matted and framed print is.
I was wondering if any photographers sell little photo widgets: magnets, key fobs, mugs, etc? I thought refrigerator magnets of some of my favorite prints might sell well, folks could buy a displayable print, but not really commit a lot of money and permanency to it...
I suppose serious photographers are cringing, but I'm just doing this for fun and to recoup a little (very little) of my cost to do this hobby.
Here is a link to a site that you may find helpful. He's a boston area photographer who offers some interesting products with his and other artists images on them. He was even featured on TV one time. Thats how I found out about it. I may talk to him myself.
www.bostoncoasters.com
Posted by Steve Foss on February 11, 2009 at 6:29 PM
Pete, lots of photographers offer cards or other non-prints as merchandise. One argument against this philosophy is that it'll allow a buyer a cheaper "out" and will keep them from buying the more expensive print. However, the philosophy I subscribe to is that there are many people who either don't have the room or don't have the budget for framed/matted fine art prints but who very much want a piece of their favorite artist's work. Also, every card/item sold will have the photographer's Web site/conact info on it, so they make great advertisements. One sure thing about cards: The buyer never keeps them long, and if they buy six cards, that's six more people (in reality quite a few more than six) being exposed to your work, likely for the first time. Particularly in the case of cards, and some other gift items, THEY are actually paying YOU so they can advertise your work, and it doesn't get much better than that.
Posted by Jamie Botdorf on February 12, 2009 at 1:50 AM
I've only done a couple of art/craft shows so far, but have found that a variety of options is nice. I've had some success with card sets (8 cards/envelopes in a box), mini-calendars and even a CD of screensavers. Photographers Edge offers some of these items and makes it easy to assemble them.
I'm trying out a set of "photo coasters" at a show in March. They hold a 3"x3" photo - 4 coasters to a set. I have high hopes for these.
I also sell the standard prints (framed and matted) and try to offer a variety of sizes. I tend to keep my prices fairly low but high enough to make a decent profit on each piece.
What works for you might depend a bit on your philosophy - I'd rather someone enjoy my images than worry about protecting a price/value position. I've been known to give away a lot of images to friends and family...but that is why I shoot photos in the first place...to share the beauty with others and watch them get excited about it too.
Posted by Carol Hyman on February 12, 2009 at 2:26 AM
Hey, Pete, Check out zazzle.com. You can create mousepads, key rings, magnets, stamps, cards, etc. Might be worth looking into ...
Carol
Posted by Larry Reitz on February 12, 2009 at 11:04 AM
Hi Pete,
I agree pretty much with Steve. I sell coasters for $4 each and toss in a holder if they buy 4. The profit margin is not as high, as the blanks cost a bit over a buck each. However, my feeling is that everyone else is offering note cards as their low end item and I like to do something different. I also sell tile murals at the shows, but they are definitely not a low end item. All that said. I have had shows where these non-print items (including tiles) have more than covered entry fees. Still, the real money is in the prints and I am fairly careful not to give the impression that I am selling craft items, especially when I jury into a show as a fine art photographer. That said, I am tossing around the idea of trying some low end shows and giving these items a higher profile.
I am in the process of changing my web site host and when Smugmug gets some issues resolved (hopefully soon) I will have examples up or at least links to examples if you care to have a look.
If you decide to explore sublimation options, the initial cost to purchase the equipment is a bit steep. You will need a heat press. My lower end press cost about $400 from George Knight. There are cheaper ones out there, but be careful. Epson is the only option for printers as the ink cannot withstand a heated head. A Google search on sublimation equipment will bring up a lot of useful information. I use Laser Reproduction Inc. for most of my stuff. Inks are atrociously expensive, but they do go a long way when you are printing small. On the other hand they do tend to clog printer heads faster than regular archival pigmented inks.
Hope this helps
Larry Reitz
Salem, CT
Posted by TACHE@PA.NET on February 12, 2009 at 3:15 PM
At one time, I had the thought of offering small prints that could be framed and hung as "accents" for interior design. These would be jewel colors--you know, the Cardinal that picks up on the red in the rug, or the Tiger Swallowtail that picks up on the yellow in the drapes. You would stick to the so-called "jewel" colors, bright primary and secondary colors. I was going to call the product "Natural Jewels." Bounced it off of a couple of Interior Design folks, and they thought it was a winner.
Sadly, I have little ambition and even less entrepeneurial spirit, so I have never done anything with the idea. Any of you folks want to pick it up and run with it, be my guest. If it makes you rich and famous, drink an expensive beer and think kind thoughts of me.
We monitor this pretty carefully through our studio. Our lab and others offer a wide range of "alternative" products such as those described here and more such as photo printed throw pillows and even blankets. We've got samples of several in our studio, and though clients often pick them up to fondle, we haven't made a single sale in close to two years. The results would almost certainly be different with nature images at craft fairs, but in a studio setting alternative products with client photos on them are a clear No Sale.
In a related vein, we're making lots of sales of multiple smaller images laid out in various formats within a single frame, giving multiple poses in one view. That general idea, with multiple birds or landscapes or whatever in a single frame, looks like it might have great promise.
Food for thought.
Posted by Sandi Winton on February 12, 2009 at 6:43 PM
Hank: Please clarify your last paragraph: In a related vein, we're making lots of sales of multiple smaller images laid out in various formats within a single frame, giving multiple poses in one view. That general idea, with multiple birds or landscapes or whatever in a single frame, looks like it might have great promise.
Not sure what you mean here. What do you mean, various formats within a single frame?
Yeah Sandi. Some are a "composition" of different size images, all peaking through windows in a mat. Others are all the same size and arranged vertically or horizontally in a tall (or long, as the case may be), narrow frame. Some are actually a single file composed in Photoshop with overlapping smaller images in a "collage." Clients seem to love them and spend a whole lot of time studying our display prints, then even more time sorting session images for the ones they want in their own version. My wife is even using a version of the Photoshop collage in some of her wedding album pages.
I can just see that working well with the right nature images. But of course, the test will be whether or not it sells.
As a matter of fact...The one special order item I sold will be for a collage of the sort Hank speaks. I had several cards of various yellow flowers. Someone came by and asked if I could make a larger print of one of them. After thinking about it a while and struggling with which one she wanted, her friend suggested that she get 5x7s of three prints and frame them in a multi-windowed mat. Hey, whatever, I'm just glad to make the sale...
The whole "product form" convinces me that our clients grew up on too much channel surfing!
Posted by Robert Fisher on February 15, 2009 at 11:55 AM
This is an interesting topic and I think there's some crossover to Darwin's post about income from photography (or income of artists generally), here (hope I got that coded right) because of some of the reasons that people express for not including these types of things or viewing them differently from their 'main' art.
Different types of shows/sales have different requirements and restrictions on what's allowed and what isn't. I know of one show that requires at least (if I recall correctly) 90% of the work to be 'original' (i.e., not reproduction prints or 'other items'). That's the reason this particular show uses to exclude photographers (they don't consider photographic prints to be 'original, one-of-a-kind'). Other shows are less restrictive.
When I see comments such as 'well I could but I don't like to because I'm a fine art photographer' or 'well I do but they're sort of throwaway items and there isn't much profit in them' I almost cringe. If I sell, say, an 11x14 matted, framed print for $175, the cost base in that print is probably going to be somewhere in the $75 to $85 range. That assumes that I either make the frame myself or buy a stock frame and cut the mats myself (custom framing that print will put the cost base to $150 or more). So the profit in that print is $90 to $100. If I sell 7 calendars at $25 each I've got the same revenue. The cost base in each calendar is in the range of $8 to $12. That's a profit of between $13 and $17 on each calendar for a total profit of $90 to $120. What difference does it make? The profile is roughly the same. I'm indifferent. Now, truth be told, in terms of sheer profit margin I'd rather sell the unframed, unmatted print for $75 or $80 with a cost base of about $10 to $12. But there's probably a better chance of selling the 7 items at $25 than the one at $175 (and yes, I do recognise there will be some difference based on the type of show).
In terms of 'justifying myself as an artist' (he says pounding on his puffed out chest ) I'd rather sell the framed print but knowing that putting food in my dogs' bowls is important my ego doesn't get in the way. As far as making these items 'throwaways' why would I? People are often looking for gifts, even at la dee da, hoighty-toighty juried shows. Let's be honest juried shows may bring a bit more well heeled crowd and maybe a slightly more knowledgeable visitor but their motivations are no different from the Wallyworld crowd; their budgets are just higher.
I like reading your #'s Robert, and they reaffirm our decision not even to bother with galleries and shows, instead selling on our own through our studio. Not many folks have their own storefront, so we definitely have a leg up. But for frame of reference, here are the numbers we use.
Our standard markup for prints and other products is 5X production cost. That's what we get for all our portraits, albums, wedding photos and more. My wife charges and frequently sells calendars from portrait sessions for $150+ for the first, with small discounts for additional units. And we mark up our nature prints 5X, too. No reason to "discount" them from the other products on our walls. And we get a session fee before we sell a single portrait. And we charge hourly fees on top of license fees and any printing for location shoots. And we charge hourly for weddings on top of print and album sales.
And yes, we get (and regularly sell) larger framed canvases for $1000+.
There really are alternatives to the traditional "nature" venue of shows, galleries and stock. Some, such as our studio or other storefronts are harder and more expensive to achieve. But results are good enough to discourage us from "wasting our time" with galleries and shows.
Posted by Robert Fisher on February 15, 2009 at 1:30 PM
Well, Hank, you've obviously got it all figured out and have the world by the balls. Congratulations! Wouldn't it be great if everyone could be as perfect as you? Bloody hell.
Don't like the answers, then don't ask the questions!
We've made a living for close to 20 years and paid for a commercial building while we were at it with our shutter releases. Write it off if you want, but pull your pants out of the tight spot you've got them in.
Discussion
15 repliesI got glimpses of the other stuff that people were buying. Many had had small items, nice little art objects, but not a big commitment like a matted and framed print is.
I was wondering if any photographers sell little photo widgets: magnets, key fobs, mugs, etc? I thought refrigerator magnets of some of my favorite prints might sell well, folks could buy a displayable print, but not really commit a lot of money and permanency to it...
I suppose serious photographers are cringing, but I'm just doing this for fun and to recoup a little (very little) of my cost to do this hobby.
Just thinkin'
Pete D.
Here is a link to a site that you may find helpful. He's a boston area photographer who offers some interesting products with his and other artists images on them. He was even featured on TV one time. Thats how I found out about it. I may talk to him myself.
www.bostoncoasters.com
I'm trying out a set of "photo coasters" at a show in March. They hold a 3"x3" photo - 4 coasters to a set. I have high hopes for these.
I also sell the standard prints (framed and matted) and try to offer a variety of sizes. I tend to keep my prices fairly low but high enough to make a decent profit on each piece.
What works for you might depend a bit on your philosophy - I'd rather someone enjoy my images than worry about protecting a price/value position. I've been known to give away a lot of images to friends and family...but that is why I shoot photos in the first place...to share the beauty with others and watch them get excited about it too.
Carol
I agree pretty much with Steve. I sell coasters for $4 each and toss in a holder if they buy 4. The profit margin is not as high, as the blanks cost a bit over a buck each. However, my feeling is that everyone else is offering note cards as their low end item and I like to do something different. I also sell tile murals at the shows, but they are definitely not a low end item. All that said. I have had shows where these non-print items (including tiles) have more than covered entry fees. Still, the real money is in the prints and I am fairly careful not to give the impression that I am selling craft items, especially when I jury into a show as a fine art photographer. That said, I am tossing around the idea of trying some low end shows and giving these items a higher profile.
I am in the process of changing my web site host and when Smugmug gets some issues resolved (hopefully soon) I will have examples up or at least links to examples if you care to have a look.
If you decide to explore sublimation options, the initial cost to purchase the equipment is a bit steep. You will need a heat press. My lower end press cost about $400 from George Knight. There are cheaper ones out there, but be careful. Epson is the only option for printers as the ink cannot withstand a heated head. A Google search on sublimation equipment will bring up a lot of useful information. I use Laser Reproduction Inc. for most of my stuff. Inks are atrociously expensive, but they do go a long way when you are printing small. On the other hand they do tend to clog printer heads faster than regular archival pigmented inks.
Hope this helps
Larry Reitz
Salem, CT
Sadly, I have little ambition and even less entrepeneurial spirit, so I have never done anything with the idea. Any of you folks want to pick it up and run with it, be my guest. If it makes you rich and famous, drink an expensive beer and think kind thoughts of me.
We monitor this pretty carefully through our studio. Our lab and others offer a wide range of "alternative" products such as those described here and more such as photo printed throw pillows and even blankets. We've got samples of several in our studio, and though clients often pick them up to fondle, we haven't made a single sale in close to two years. The results would almost certainly be different with nature images at craft fairs, but in a studio setting alternative products with client photos on them are a clear No Sale.
In a related vein, we're making lots of sales of multiple smaller images laid out in various formats within a single frame, giving multiple poses in one view. That general idea, with multiple birds or landscapes or whatever in a single frame, looks like it might have great promise.
Food for thought.
Not sure what you mean here. What do you mean, various formats within a single frame?
I can just see that working well with the right nature images. But of course, the test will be whether or not it sells.
Pete D.
Different types of shows/sales have different requirements and restrictions on what's allowed and what isn't. I know of one show that requires at least (if I recall correctly) 90% of the work to be 'original' (i.e., not reproduction prints or 'other items'). That's the reason this particular show uses to exclude photographers (they don't consider photographic prints to be 'original, one-of-a-kind'). Other shows are less restrictive.
When I see comments such as 'well I could but I don't like to because I'm a fine art photographer' or 'well I do but they're sort of throwaway items and there isn't much profit in them' I almost cringe. If I sell, say, an 11x14 matted, framed print for $175, the cost base in that print is probably going to be somewhere in the $75 to $85 range. That assumes that I either make the frame myself or buy a stock frame and cut the mats myself (custom framing that print will put the cost base to $150 or more). So the profit in that print is $90 to $100. If I sell 7 calendars at $25 each I've got the same revenue. The cost base in each calendar is in the range of $8 to $12. That's a profit of between $13 and $17 on each calendar for a total profit of $90 to $120. What difference does it make? The profile is roughly the same. I'm indifferent. Now, truth be told, in terms of sheer profit margin I'd rather sell the unframed, unmatted print for $75 or $80 with a cost base of about $10 to $12. But there's probably a better chance of selling the 7 items at $25 than the one at $175 (and yes, I do recognise there will be some difference based on the type of show).
In terms of 'justifying myself as an artist' (he says pounding on his puffed out chest
Our standard markup for prints and other products is 5X production cost. That's what we get for all our portraits, albums, wedding photos and more. My wife charges and frequently sells calendars from portrait sessions for $150+ for the first, with small discounts for additional units. And we mark up our nature prints 5X, too. No reason to "discount" them from the other products on our walls. And we get a session fee before we sell a single portrait. And we charge hourly fees on top of license fees and any printing for location shoots. And we charge hourly for weddings on top of print and album sales.
And yes, we get (and regularly sell) larger framed canvases for $1000+.
There really are alternatives to the traditional "nature" venue of shows, galleries and stock. Some, such as our studio or other storefronts are harder and more expensive to achieve. But results are good enough to discourage us from "wasting our time" with galleries and shows.
Don't like the answers, then don't ask the questions!
We've made a living for close to 20 years and paid for a commercial building while we were at it with our shutter releases. Write it off if you want, but pull your pants out of the tight spot you've got them in.