Posted by Chad Dees on February 17, 2009 at 11:11 AM
Hi I have been shooting both jpeg and raw which is good, but I want to know how to edit the raw files in photoshope elements 6.0 or Capture NX so that the colors match th jpeg because everytime I try to edit the raw in photoshop the colors get instantley edited by the raw converter! I want the color to match the jpeg all I want to be able to do is edit curves and change and get back detail in a few photos. I realize that some say make the raw like you want but I want the color to look like I saw it in the camera when I took the raw not get edited by the program. if anybody can help me with this I would really apreciate it I want to be able to edit the images without loosing detail but still have the right color if anybody could tell me how to do this I would really apreciate it. Thank you everyone who answers
Posted by Steve Foss on February 17, 2009 at 11:18 AM
Chad, I don't shoot Nikon, but with Canon you can set in-camera levels for saturation, contrast and sharpness that apply to any JPEG image taken. And those settings are adopted when you view an image on the camera's LCD. They don't apply to RAW images, however, which may explain why your JPEG and RAW colors look different.
One way to help match them better is to check the camera to see whether you are shooting JPEG in sRGB or Adobe RGB. Then when you go to open a RAW capture in Elements, you can select the matching color space in the preview screen.
That won't give you a perfect match if you have JPEG capture settings in-camera with increased saturation, contrast or sharpness. In Canon's DPP software, which comes with its cameras, the software uses the in-camera JPEG settings as default settings when converting a RAW image, so they will match the JPEG much more closely. I don't know whether Capture NX does the same thing.
One of the points in shooting both JPEG and RAW simultaneously is that in-camera settings can produce a JPEG that's ready to go with little or no manipulation in post processing for those times that speed is needed or a person doesn't feel like doing a lot of PP, but at the same time there's the RAW image in case you don't like with the camera did with the JPEG, or in case you want to do other things from scratch with the image.
So, a question: Why do you want to match the RAW image color to the JPEG instead of just using the JPEG image you like better?
Posted by Chad Dees on February 17, 2009 at 11:25 AM
Hi Steve the reason I want to shoot raw is so that I can have more leanway when sharpening or when I need to blow the image up bigger then 30x40 I also want it in case the image needs to be edited curves, tones, lighting, etc I also just figure it would be nice to have the power of raw with the natural and accurate colors that my jpeg and Picture controls deliver
thank you for repling
Posted by Robert Fisher on February 17, 2009 at 11:30 AM
Unfortunately, the version of ACR that comes with PSE isn't that good (at least PSE6, maybe PSE7 is better). It doesn't have a lot of the functionality that the full version of ACR has. There is no curves function, for example, as there is in the full version of ACR. You're restricted to basic, global adjustments such as Brightness, Contrast, Exposure and so forth.
Like Steve, I don't shoot Nikon but I believe (not positive) that Nikon has something similar to Canon's Picture Styles. This may be what you're looking for. CaptureNX may be the better way to go if you want to mimic exactly what a JPEG would look like. My guess is that there are presets you can choose from in CaptureNX that mimic certain looks that would be generated by an in camera JPEG (e.g., Landscape, Portrait) and the settings for Saturation, Contrast, and the like will be automatically adjusted to the preset levels for that image style.
Posted by Steve Foss on February 17, 2009 at 11:36 AM
with the natural and accurate colors that my jpeg and Picture controls deliver
If you have in-camera settings that boost contrast and saturation, "natural" and "accurate" may not apply to your JPEGs, Chad. As for using RAW to go really big, I think that's wise for a number of reasons, but small defects are magnified when blowing an image up that large, and since I'm always going to start post-processing a really big print from scratch, it's really not much more complicated to make those color and contrast adjustments as you go. In fact, taking the control for those away from the camera by shooting RAW and doing it yourself will, in the end, likely lead to better printing results. It's pretty easy for in-camera saturation and contrast boosts to hurt an image, either by blowing out highlights (contrast boost) or reducing fine detail (saturation boost).
Just my $.02.
Posted by Dan Borzynski on February 17, 2009 at 2:25 PM
Another thing to keep in mind is that although the jpeg may look good, it is not necessarily the final word on how an image should look.
I'd really concentrate on making the RAW file look as good as possible, when you need a processed file derived from RAW. RAW files from most current SLRs will need adjustments in contrast, color/saturation/white balance and sharpness. Usually, once you get through small tweaks in these, the results should look fairly close to the jpeg. It will never be exact, since it is your interpretation rather than that of the camera (or the engineer who designed the software to do that). Sharpness aside, which should be your last step, this will be the starting point for the rest of your work on the image. You can spend 10 minutes, for something quick and easy, or 4 hours or more, which I have done for some of my show images.
As to the specifics as to how much contrast, color/saturation/white balance, we really can't give any specifics. Unfortunately, this is one of those things that is best done by doing it. In a year, you'll probably come back to images done today and think eewwwwhh! It takes practice and time to learn and there are no real quick shortcuts other than time.
Last, make sure that you monitor is calibrated. Without that step, you will always be guessing.
Posted by John Mumaw on February 17, 2009 at 7:16 PM
One way you can get closer to how your JPEG images look is by installing the latest version of Adobe Camera Raw 5.2
This version includes camera specific profiles created at Adobe labs to improve color rendering. These profiles include:
Adobe Standard
Camera Standard
Camera Faithful
Camera Neutral
Camera Landscape
Camera Portrait
I find one of the Standard profiles to work much better than the default method chosen when I first open a RAW file in ACR.
Be sure to read the installation instructions carefully (scroll down for Elements instructions) .
Discussion
6 repliesOne way to help match them better is to check the camera to see whether you are shooting JPEG in sRGB or Adobe RGB. Then when you go to open a RAW capture in Elements, you can select the matching color space in the preview screen.
That won't give you a perfect match if you have JPEG capture settings in-camera with increased saturation, contrast or sharpness. In Canon's DPP software, which comes with its cameras, the software uses the in-camera JPEG settings as default settings when converting a RAW image, so they will match the JPEG much more closely. I don't know whether Capture NX does the same thing.
One of the points in shooting both JPEG and RAW simultaneously is that in-camera settings can produce a JPEG that's ready to go with little or no manipulation in post processing for those times that speed is needed or a person doesn't feel like doing a lot of PP, but at the same time there's the RAW image in case you don't like with the camera did with the JPEG, or in case you want to do other things from scratch with the image.
So, a question: Why do you want to match the RAW image color to the JPEG instead of just using the JPEG image you like better?
thank you for repling
Like Steve, I don't shoot Nikon but I believe (not positive) that Nikon has something similar to Canon's Picture Styles. This may be what you're looking for. CaptureNX may be the better way to go if you want to mimic exactly what a JPEG would look like. My guess is that there are presets you can choose from in CaptureNX that mimic certain looks that would be generated by an in camera JPEG (e.g., Landscape, Portrait) and the settings for Saturation, Contrast, and the like will be automatically adjusted to the preset levels for that image style.
If you have in-camera settings that boost contrast and saturation, "natural" and "accurate" may not apply to your JPEGs, Chad. As for using RAW to go really big, I think that's wise for a number of reasons, but small defects are magnified when blowing an image up that large, and since I'm always going to start post-processing a really big print from scratch, it's really not much more complicated to make those color and contrast adjustments as you go. In fact, taking the control for those away from the camera by shooting RAW and doing it yourself will, in the end, likely lead to better printing results. It's pretty easy for in-camera saturation and contrast boosts to hurt an image, either by blowing out highlights (contrast boost) or reducing fine detail (saturation boost).
Just my $.02.
I'd really concentrate on making the RAW file look as good as possible, when you need a processed file derived from RAW. RAW files from most current SLRs will need adjustments in contrast, color/saturation/white balance and sharpness. Usually, once you get through small tweaks in these, the results should look fairly close to the jpeg. It will never be exact, since it is your interpretation rather than that of the camera (or the engineer who designed the software to do that). Sharpness aside, which should be your last step, this will be the starting point for the rest of your work on the image. You can spend 10 minutes, for something quick and easy, or 4 hours or more, which I have done for some of my show images.
As to the specifics as to how much contrast, color/saturation/white balance, we really can't give any specifics. Unfortunately, this is one of those things that is best done by doing it. In a year, you'll probably come back to images done today and think eewwwwhh!
Last, make sure that you monitor is calibrated. Without that step, you will always be guessing.
This version includes camera specific profiles created at Adobe labs to improve color rendering. These profiles include:
Adobe Standard
Camera Standard
Camera Faithful
Camera Neutral
Camera Landscape
Camera Portrait
I find one of the Standard profiles to work much better than the default method chosen when I first open a RAW file in ACR.
Be sure to read the installation instructions carefully (scroll down for Elements instructions) .